I'm happy to see that European leaders speak out in favour of something thought up by the Arab league. Let's hope it's gestures (and actions) like these that help de-escalate the global "West - Islamism" situation.
this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2025
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Is the West vs. Islamism still a big topic in Europe (outside of immigration rhetoric)? On this side of the Atlantic, it was already "on the back burner" somewhat, and then the Russian invasion happened.
a big topic in Europe (outside of immigration rhetoric)
It is a big topic. And it's all about immigration rhetoric.
And it's all about immigration rhetoric.
Yeah because the left ignores the subject, leaving it to (far-)right parties. It's a mistake IMO, Islam is not harmless. My brother in law is a Muslim convert. Last year during Christmas, the whole Santa thing was a huge issue, he wouldn't explain to his kids that some children believe in different things than them.
And it's only gotten worse, a few months ago he announced that he wouldn't come to family gatherings anymore if there was any alcohol or non-halal food. He says that he doesn't want to expose his kids to that. So what does that teach them? That common french beverages, foods and customs are so wrong that they can't see their aunts and cousins anymore. How do they grow up to be well-adjusted members of society with that kind of upbringing?
So we're really worried about where things are headed, and the only answer from the political class is either "there's nothing wrong with Islam you bigot" or "send them back to their country"...
The French and Islam, tell me a more iconic duo. Radicalism is bad and this in law is obviously pretty radical. However, looking over to France, not even places like Hungary, Poland or Germany are as racist as French people are in every day life. And I picked them because those are particularly racist countries. The evil of French Islamophobia is that itβs sugarcoated with a fake intellectual narrative that tries to justify it instead of being honest about the fact that you just fucking hate them and see them as lesser people that you used to colonize.
Sure, the right sees them that way. I don't, and I'm far from alone. I have many Muslim friends and colleagues, wonderful people that I look up to, and with whom I've had very interesting conversations about religion. Up until last year I accommodated my BIL as best as I could, making sure there were appropriate food and drinks options for him, providing him with a room to pray in, and so on. I have absolutely no problem with religious people, as long as respect and understanding goes both ways.
But as you say, there are radical Muslims, and it's not racist to be concerned about this issue and its consequences. A teacher was decapitated for showing fucking pictures to his class, because a student lied to her father who was all too happy to launch a hate campaign against the teacher. Many people cheered at the news on social networks. In my daughter's school, a fucking 6yo was caught lighting a girl's hair on fire because girls are supposed to cover their hair. Is that not concerning?
But sure, you can dismiss it all as islamophobia, and then wonder why more and more people vote for the RN.
I mean, that just sounds like the problem you would have with anyone radicalised by religion. If you had a hyper Christian or Jew I doubt it would be much different. Perhaps the problem there might be that many more Muslims are ardent believers than Christians, so the atmosphere makes people more inclined to be radical as well. Or maybe it's just a case of correlation does not equal causation.
Sure but we don't have christians or Jews decapitating teachers for showing pictures, or otherwise trying to impose their beliefs and customs on others. I mean, we had quite a few Christians like that, but we mostly fixed the issue when we hung dozens of priests. The left remembers this fondly, while you can't say anything negative about Islam without being called a bigot.
I think itβs mostly just a right wing talking point. Especially in France, where they try to milk as much islamophobia as they can out of the various terror attacks.
Same in Germany.
Immigration rhetoric has been a pretty big part, especially as most "center" politics moved to the right substantially in most EU countries
I don't think people care outside of immigration rhetoric
I want EU to grow balls and provide aid to Gaza from the sea.
Without a proper harbour that is actually surprisingly difficult. There are some special ship types that can do it without, but they are pretty rare.
China has a bunch of those sort of ships and is building more....
so they will send some help, right?...
This was a year ago. As long people are starving there then weβre not delivering enough aid. Make USA and Israel uncomfortable because what are they going to do about it? Shoot at it? They could shoot at some nameless organisation, reporters or at toothless UN but can they shoot at foreign military delivering humanitarian aid in accord with international law which compels us to prevent genocide?
I want that we stay out of it. Its not our War, People or Land.
Uhhh... (Checks history)
Europe actually appears to have been quite involved in the creation of the current state of Israel, and by that token, the stateless position of the Palestinians.
The state of the land, which is the cause of the war, is actually very much due to European decisions.
i would stop attacks on israel and keep negotiations going. the hostages i would send back. the gazans should topple hamas. hamas are the problem. lebanon is not much bigger but more peaceful and wealthier.
"The Gazans should topple Hamas" idea is tantamount to the old "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" idea. Gazans do not even have homes, or food, do you think they have any other internal structure they can pull on to coordinate anything?
Do you know who has kept Hamas in power? Who has refused any deal that involves any other ready group like the PA from taking the reigns? Who would absolutely kill any upstart organization? Israel.
At this point, Hamas is a puppet boogie man that conservative Israelis have to prop up because Hamas is their "slaughter Gazans for free" card.
there are millions of gazans in gaza. there are refugee centers where the israelis dont attack. afaik and there are many more 100 000s of gazans safe in other countries. the ceasefire is a good start. imo
All of your responses are non-sequitors to my points and your initial argument.
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I googled if Gaza has refugee camps that are safe from Israeli attack, because that is counter to 15mo of news. Do you have a source? That is somehow more credible than dozens of international news articles and experts saying "no where in Gaza is safe"? Story after story of Gazans following evacuation routes directed by the IDF that the IDF then attack.
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For the sake of argument, let's say that there are refugee camps that are safe. As you say - there are millions of Gazans. They all need to be safe. They all need access to safety because they are human beings.
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What is your point about '100,000 Gazans safe in other countries'? I think you mean that there are 'enough' outside that it is 'ok' to exterminate the ones still trapped in Gaza because their 'lineage' is preserved.
Humans are not a variety of carrot. We don't say it's ok to kill some percentage of a people just as long as we don't kill them all. Hitler could have said it was ok to kill all the Jews in Europe because there are 'enough' in the US. It would still have been wrong to kill any Jews in Europe for being Jewish, just as it is wrong for Israel to attack Palestinian civilians for being Palestinian.
Every person has a right to their own individual life that should not be taken by any state because they are the wrong ethnicity in the wrong place. Genocide is wrong at the scale of individual people.
That is the heart of human rights, and you misunderstand that at your own peril.
- On February 2, an Israeli airstrike on the Nuseirat refugee camp resulted in the death of one child and injured several others. Additionally, a 13-year-old child was shot dead by Israeli forces in Rafah on February 5 .
- On February 28, two Palestinian civilians, including a five-year-old child, were killed by Israeli attacks while trying to return to Northern Gaza .
These incidents highlight the ongoing tensions and violence despite the ceasefire agreements.
Millions of Gazans in the Camps and 2 dead in a month while a war is going on.
There is both moral and legal grounds for humanitarian aid. Iβm sure I donβt need to explain moral ones but UN recognises responsibility to protect as a part of international law. EU should be upholding international rule based order. Itβll also piss US off, but we no longer need to walk on eggshells.
I dont like foreign People to suffer, but at the same time i dont want to send them our Money which we could spend to improve the Lifes of our People.
Iβm not starving. You?
no, but life could be better tbh.
I guess I shouldnβt have been so sure that I donβt need to explain moral reasons for humanitarian aid.
i would rather spend the money for gaza on africa who are really starving. their record of supporting terrorism is also better.
(i dont support israel either. they behave also very bad.)