this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago

If we want to rename things (Mexico was a LOT larger in the olden times) why don't we call it "Gulf of the Americas?"

Oh because it doesn't support imperial single minded nationalism and isn't USA centered

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I'll do this starting NOW, if someone will just post a pronunciation guide! Please?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Thanks: that's gonna take some practise!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Best I can do is this: chal-chew-KLEE-kway

With some help from Forvo. The [t͡ɬ] sounds like KL to my Canadian ears and not TL (which doesn't happen at the start of syllable in English anyway).

Edit: apparently that's just rhe the deity... Not sure what to do with the last few letters. "eh-kattle"?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Yep, that's just the deity.

There's also pronunciation videos, FYI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pklyVXkYgk&t=35s

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago
[–] [email protected] 36 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I'm all for finding a middle ground, which is why I will call it the Gulf of Canada, USA, and Mexico. Or Gulf of C.U.M. for short.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago

Well played sir, well played.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

BP Playground

[–] [email protected] 93 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I unironically support this

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (3 children)

while I like this, I don't think I would be able to pronounce it, lol

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[–] [email protected] 82 points 5 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Pfft. Lousy historians and their stupid . . research.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago

I'm just happy that this semi-true fact led me to learn a whole lot about the nahuatl and their history!

[–] [email protected] 68 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Never heard of this goddess before but im glad i did. She's got some really awesome depictions!

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

Yep... She's got some great 'depictions' 👉😏👉

Always wanted a woman with a snake moustache!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I need to understand the snake moustache. Is it a water breather so she can breathe above water while she feeds her children. She's really pulling that overtime.

Also, who skinned the baby? He seems pretty unperturbed though.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

"Gulf of the Jade Skirt" sounds kinda badass.

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[–] [email protected] 57 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I really wish we could actually "rename" places as their original indigenous names across all America(~~s~~). For example my country had an internal turmoil just to keep the original name of its capital city because we love our native people, and yet we keep the incredibly stupid name of "Land of Colon" (imho most probably the most stupid name of any country, ever) because fuck our native people.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I like that we call it Denali nowadays instead of Mount McKinley. I'm all for this.

Now if I could just get South Dakota to issue me a new license plate without those faces carved into the mountain...

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

At this point, I don't know if America can heal with Mt Rushmore still there. I'm not saying we would blow it up, but I do think it might be good if it was blown up.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Where and when was this decided by the Indigenous people of North America?

I'm interested to learn more about this. I've never heard this name when I studied the history of North America,

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago

Agree, at least it's the original name

[–] [email protected] 49 points 6 days ago (1 children)

I’m practicing the pronunciation right now.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 6 days ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 6 days ago (1 children)

How are you coping with the over abundance of vowels?

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 days ago

When every letter is a vowel, none of them are.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago

I've said for decades that in order to cope with an insane world, people take up unjustifiable positions. Some people turn to God, others believe in causes, or whatever.

Mine is that Wales isn't real and your language is a psyop. I'm sorry.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Somebody teach me the basic pronounciation, so I can make a slightly less fool of myself when trying to say it, and I'm on board with that.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 days ago (2 children)

t͡ʃaːɬt͡ʃiwˈt͡ɬikʷeː

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago

Damn, those are some crazy phonetics

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 days ago (4 children)

If human bodies are mostly water, does that mean Chalchiuhtlicue has dominion over us, too? 🤔

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Anybody got a pronunciation key?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

I think nobody would complain if you pronounced it "Cha Cha cat"

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago

My gal spelt out “Chalchiuhtlicueyecati” but abbreviated “associated with.”

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

No because it’s not a homogeneous people so it would have many different names/this wouldn’t be coordinated across NA

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

If I could heard that pronounced I would totally start call it that too

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

Same. I see the wiki link, but those symbols mean nothing to me.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

@[email protected] - Do you know? I couldn't find many sources but I only speak English.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

EDIT: As indepndnt mentioned in a comment below, the OP was posted on February 14, which pre-dates the wikipedia edits. So, my conclusions below about the timeline are not valid.

Hah, sure, let's investigate 🕵️‍♂️

The term 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' was added as a potential Aztec name to the English wikipedia page on February 15, 2025, by user 'Mxn'.

The description of the edit is the following:

Frum says the Aztecs had no specific name for the gulf, which is plausible in a practical sense, but Fernández gives a specific religious name and is more of a reliable source on this topic

If we investigate a bit further, we can see that the term Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl is described to be a name for the 'Gulf of Mexico' in the spanish Wikipedia: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl

This page was updated to include the description of Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl as the 'Gulf of Mexico' in September 16, 2018. I don't have access to the citation so I don't know if the citation specifies if this term is still known/used.

If you check the history you will find that the same 'Mxn' fixed a typo in this page on February 15, 2025.

So, from this sequence of events it is highly likely that the term 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' was included into the Gulf of Mexico wiki page as a result of the user Mxn performing an active search for Aztec names for the Gulf of Mexico, and finding this connection between the term an the gulf by searching on Wikipedia. This information did not come from recent news about the term being used by natives.

I can find no evidence of native people referring to the gulf of Mexico as 'Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl' more frequently or at all. I can find no mention of this becoming viral in Mexico.

I find it highly unlikely that:

  • User Mxn added an obscure Aztec term to the Wiki page two weeks ago

AND

  • This same obscure Aztec term coincidentally began being used by Mexican natives, and this trend became popular enough to be noticed by foreign media but not by Mexican media

More likely....

  • Mxn actively looked for a term and updated the English wiki
  • Someone read the English wiki, thought this would be a nice story, made the meme

And this concludes my little investigation 🧐

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Haha, fantastic. Thank you for your work. ALAS! We have uncovered a deeper mystery! 🔍🔎🔎🔍🔎 🤔

Is this the book? https://annas-archive.org/md5/fb8569c405991107b987fda775f49ba2

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yes, but that version is in German. That website also has one in English: https://annas-archive.org/slow_download/24154814bfe1e676d79509c3db1f74a4/0/0

Let's see...

Woah, interesting. The author is José López Portillo. I thought he shared the name with a former Mexican president, but, nope, the author is a former Mexican president.

The title of the English version is a bit different, but the text appears to be the same. It is a novel, and I can find no mention of the gulf of Mexico or of Chalchiuhtlicueyecatl in this book. To me it looks like a mistake in the citation.

The claim appears to come from this text (citation 1): https://www.scribd.com/document/703207646/Dioses-prehispanicos-de-Mexico-mitos-y-deidades-del-panteon-Fernandez-Adela-1992-Mexico-D-F-Panorama-Editorial-9789683803061-cbee5

Unfortunately, that book does not contain references nor is it stated where this claim comes from.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago

Damn, look at you being awesome!

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