For newcomers to the thread let me explain the entire comments section
Lemmy.ee 
What is lemmy.ee?
It's actually lemm . ee
I don't want to actually link the real thing cause is a fascist instance.
This whole thread is just one westoid getting dunked on by multiple people lmaooo
Good article. Shame about the bad faith liberal in the comments.
Question though. Why are all their links obfuscated through some weird tracking service instead of just being direct links? They all redirect through: media.us12.list-manage [dot] com/track/click?
Looks like something from email marketing. Very unprofessional and ugly looking. Also very bad practice as links like that probably won't still be valid in 5 years. Also as communists it brings up questions about opsec, being tracked for every single source link you click.
No normal human being argues like that. Every time this happens it's most likely one, or the same small group of people working out of a cubicle at some random air force base.
Or a bot. lol
Nice article. Shared on a Russian language Wikimedian discord server, shouted "China will win, Washington will lose", gets banned outright.
PS: I'm sorry to everyone inside the Discord server for being overboard with inflammatory and nonsensical interjections.
I think the current military preparation is fueled by xi's military buildup and ask for the Chinese military for Taiwan invasion options by 2027.
The united States has responded with rebuilding air and navel bases in the area and modernization programs, largely focused around the navy.
I think it lines up well with the reality of the countries involved. China's options for occupation of Taiwan will start to diminish as their population ages and shrinks and is less capable to take action. We're seeing China at their height today and they are communicating that theyre preparing options for action in Taiwan. The response is to prepare to meet those threats, which isn't really surprising. Neither do I think it's signs of the West wanting conflict with China, I think it's the opposite, a deterrence for China, clearly communicating that their threats wont go unchallenged. I think everyone in the West is hoping that deterrence is enough to prevent war, not provoke it.
Neither is it surprising that we don't see government funding companies for research in the West to the level we see China doing so. That's not really what government does in the West, companies generally take their own risk while the government may fund some select investments but generally will stay out of it. This idea that the West will adopt Chinese governance before it's shown any ability to produce long term results or cope with the risks they take on is fantasy. The West has always prioritized stability and risk management, they're not likely to change without good cause.
Neither do I think it’s signs of the West wanting conflict with China, I think it’s the opposite, a deterrence for China
You are underestimating the gravity of the implications of American military buildup around Taiwan. It would be kinda like if China started building bases and sending carriers around Hawaii to prevent an American invasion.
I recognize the way China thinks about it, but the way the world is is that the United States already controls Hawaii, there would be no change to the situation on United States placing more assets there and occupying further. No real resistance or anything would be expected for American soldiers increasing the garrison on the island.
China does not control Taiwan, there would be resistance. The geopolitical reality is that there's no way for China to peacefully walk in assume control to put an end to the civil war. Not only that but trade that many countries rely on would change hands to what they may believe to be less reliable hands.
I recognize the Chinese perspective, but the reality is different from Chinas desire and not recognizing that leads to situations like this.
I also don't think it's already decisively concluded in favor of China. Taiwan doesn't need to win, they only need to outlast a China that's in decline. The instability from these kinds of decisions is pretty great and this was caused by China, not the United States, the United States is responding to what they see as Chinese buildup with their own buildup. There has been a multi generational draw down in American military in the region before China began the build up that the United States is not responding to.
Should also consider that the United States isn't only building up around Taiwan, the United States has many obligations in the region that are threatened by Chinese buildup that they must respond to if they want to keep their alliances in the region.
So while there's some danger for China because of the America. Response to their build up I think it's something that China must e expected when they built up their own military around American allies in the region, regardless of Taiwan.
I recognize the Chinese perspective, but the reality is different from Chinas desire
Go look up the 1970's US and China Joint Communique, and see whose actually based in reality. The US, on paper, pretends to agree to China's One China policy but it acts belligerently by supporting seperatism in Taiwan.
they only need to outlast a China that’s in decline.
okay gordon chang
United States has many obligations in the region that are threatened by Chinese buildup that they must respond to if they want to keep their alliances in the region.
Like in Japan? South Korea? with Taiwanese seperatists? In the phillipines? In other words, all places that have US backed regimes? How convenient.
Yes, this is the reality of politics, lines on maps aren't realities on the ground. That goes both ways
I haven't read Gordon chang, but I think the demographics situation of China will reduce growth and see a decline in China. I don't think that's a controversial thing to say in a geopolitical context, what about it do you disagree with?
Yes, in all of the places that the United States has allies. That is an inherent backing but I think the people there are the main thing keeping the current political groups in power in those countries. If China, for instance, believed they wouldn't need to violently overthrow the current rulers of Taiwan and the people backing them they could just go there and assume control bloodlessly. I think they don't because they fear the Taiwanese people acting to stop them to maintain the current political reality of the island. It's not Americans that woild act to stop landings, it's Taiwanese people.
a China that’s in decline
For just one example of how ridiculous this sounds, the Chinese-based Deepseek recently made mockery of the billions invested in AI in the west, so much so it fucked with the western stock market AI investment bubble, just by fact of Deepseek existing and being much more efficient training, and meanwhile the US has a meme-based billionaire purging government agencies under the administration of a WWE-style mob boss president.
nononono you see china posted declining growth rates in consecutive years, its a trend now it will repeat for a century and china will have 300m citizens by 2100. china has collapsed, viva the united staets
I'm not really looking at the situation from these minor perspectives like ai, the reality of Chinese demographics is enough to show that there's a certain decline looming around China and this presents a current best opportunity for China to achieve its outward facing goals as a decline in growth will limit its future capabilities to achieve those goals
the reality of Chinese demographics is enough to show that there’s a certain decline looming around China
In the process of industrialization, the development of personal awareness, the pursuit of a high-quality life and women's increased participation in the economy have always led to a decline in fertility rates. China isn't immune to this. China's demographic situation is a natural outcome driven by the nation's economic and social development. This phenomenon is quite common. There is no need to exaggerate its influence.
If US AI just lost $1 trillion in market cap after the release of a model in China that cost $5 million to make, and uses 30% less resources to run, what does he that say about the US AI market?
As others have pointed out, birthrates in all industrialized nations go down when women are given the opportunity to participate in the labor market equally. Even in countries with exceptional socialized family support, those supports do not increase birth rates.
China is a leader in automaton and uses it's 5 year plans to ensure they keep automaton up while demographics go down.
Declining birth rates are not sign of decline, if that were true then America is in decline, along with most other industrial nations.
You say this as if the whole world's population isn't projected to peak at 11 billion then stagnate (even africa, the current fastest grower). Like, I don't get this obsession with focusing on Chinese birthrates.
It is a very weird obsession, especially since we know what birth rates look like in Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. Basically all developed countries. Even the US would be having problems if it wasn't compensating with immigration.
It's also indicative of an inability to think outside of the capitalist paradigm of infinite growth. Just because capitalism is in trouble once growth stops doesn't mean that socialism works the same way.
And ultimately it is a form of projection, as it is Europe and the US that have much worse social contradictions festering at the moment for which there is no obvious solution within their current system.
My prediction is that, as with all of the "China will collapse" predictions that have been made for the past 30+ years, this one too will turn out to be a nothing-burger. The Chinese government will figure out ways to deal with the changing demographic realities that come with being a highly developed country and that will be that.
Automation will play a big part in the transition, as increasing the productivity of each individual worker means one worker can sustain more people. Where in capitalism automation only exacerbates the social problems by putting people out of a job, socialism can turn automation into a social boon by allowing people to work less and have more free time for things such as a family.
Let's just wait and see how this "Chinese decline" pans out 5-10 years from now, ok? I just want to know, if the opposite happens instead and China keeps outpacing the West, will you admit your analysis was wrong? What evidence would it take for you to see to change your mind?
Was this written as satire?
Brand new lemm.ee account = guaranteed unintentional satire
westoids are so deep in their own kool-aid that its likely not satire lmao
I'm interested in why you think it's wrong
I’m interested in why you think it’s wrong
There are others who can probably explain the details better than I can, but in broad strokes:
China isn't "occupying" Taiwan, it's part of China and primarily contested by western imperialist interests in a similar fashion to them splitting Korea into North and South, attempting the same or similar with Vietnam, etc.
The western empire definitely wants conflict with China because it wants China to bow to it and China refuses to do so. As seen in the McCarthyite anti-China racism and panic, the sanctions levied against China, etc.
"The West has always prioritized stability and risk management": This is about backwards. The west's system depends on war and looting and is not stable at all, and we're seeing it come apart at the seams, especially in the infrastructure and governance of the US.
This last point is evident by the fact that China hasn't been at war for decades and hasn't dropped a single bomb in the same timeframe. Meanwhile, the USA has been at war for the majority of it's existence.
You are right that China is not occupying Taiwan, they don't have any substantial presence there. Countries generally do occupy the places that make up the country though, the question I think we're considering is about a military occupation, whether the occupation is welcomed by the population freely or maintained through force by military action. It was split because of a civil war between different Chinese factions, not western imperialism. Neither was Korea split by West and East, it was split by American and Soviet forces.who agreed to the demarcation line and then upheld by the United nations. China wishes it could occupy Taiwan, but the Taiwanese people have rejected that idea many times so China is forced to abandon the idea or attempt a military occupation. I hope there's no military occupation but rather further attempts to peacefully integrate. What are you hoping for?
McCarthy was a long time ago, I think we're well beyond that today. Today the situation was no peaceful trade and a drawdown of military forces in the far east and dependence upon each other. Then China started building up their military, so some from the West decided not to back down and met that build up, this caused a trade rift and a continued build up and fracturing of those economies to remove the dependencies. I don't think any of these are the product of anti China racism.
I think recent history is actually very peaceful. There have been minor wars, yes, but nothing like what history has shown the world capable of in the past.
We should also consider that all of the military build up around Taiwan isn't just around Taiwan, it's around other allies in the region so any buildup against Taiwan threatens multiple American allies in the region so there was never a real possiblity that they wouldn't step up to the challenge presented by China
It was split because of a civil war between different Chinese factions, not western imperialism.
Incorrect. The west absolutely stepped in and did what they could to keep Taiwan as a leverage point against China.
Neither was Korea split by West and East, it was split by American and Soviet forces.who agreed to the demarcation line and then upheld by the United nations.
Also incorrect. The split was literally drawn up by US occupying forces in Korea and further made reality through the brutally repressive puppet government run by Syngman Rhee.
China wishes it could occupy Taiwan, but the Taiwanese people have rejected that idea many times so China is forced to abandon the idea or attempt a military occupation.
Pure nonsense.
McCarthy was a long time ago, I think we’re well beyond that today.
They're still vilifying Russia today, like it's still the Soviet Union (it's far from that at this point). They're vilifying China similarly right now.
I think recent history is actually very peaceful.
The western empire, under the leadership of the US, has been doing brutal coups, violent sanctions, and hot wars either through proxies or directly, for decades.
I would like to know where you are getting your information that you have such wildly wrong takes about basically all of this.
It's difficult to tell if we're discussing geopolitical realities or there's just an agenda being pushed.
Yes, the United States defends it's interests. That's the geopolitical reality. Yes, they saw an ally fighting against an enemy and stopped the destruction of an ally. That's not crazy, thats the reality. Yes, the United States saw the Soviet union occupying Korea and didn't expect such a fast occupation so they drew up a border with the soviet's to mark occupation zones as they did in every nation that was defeated in ww2. Yes, both the north and the south out incompetent dictators in charge and both suffered for it.
Russia is attacking their neighbors, so maybe Russia deserves some infamy.
"Wildly wrong" lol, you just really want to push a narrative and choose your facts to accommodate a pre conceived narrative you want to present
It’s difficult to tell if we’re discussing geopolitical realities or there’s just an agenda being pushed.
You not recognizing that everything has bias is a problem here. There is no politically "neutral" position. There are, however, factual realities and wholesale lies, and things between depending on how they are presented, and you keep spewing utter nonsense.
What you are behaving like is a garden-variety "independent thinker" westerner who repeats western imperialist talking points, while believing you are being discerning. Yes, I want to push a narrative, one that aligns with the interests of the historically colonized and imperialized peoples of the world. I also want to push a narrative that is factually accurate and these are not incompatible agendas.
Part of the problem for someone like you, and I have been there in the past myself, is you think you are above that, and you think a person can be above that. You think you can examine reality from outside it and you can't. You are far more of a product of propaganda than you think you are. Your intellectual arrogance and the heightened coupling between your ego sense of competence and your ability to believe you are above biases, is part of your undoing and will continue to be, unless you face it.
The US drew up the Korean division line literally 2 days after they showed they were willing to drop a second nuke over a mass of civilians. It's disingenuous to say that the US and Soviets had equal hands in dividing Korea.
The Soviets safeguarded the Korean people's councils in the North. They did not even aim to be there. The US disbanded the people's councils in the South and reinstalled Japanese collaborators. Today South Korea remains a US vassal state to this day, as the US president has ultimate command over the SK military.
I think recent history is actually very peaceful. There have been minor wars, yes, but nothing like what history has shown the world capable of in the past.
ain't no way, westoids always say the most hilarious things
I’m interested in why you think it’s wrong
First, would you be kind enough to answer the following question (and this might involve some time and research in your own part) that will go a long way to prove that you are not a troll:
Why is China signifcantly more democractic than the US?
I am not asking if you truly believe this but whether you have the intellectual curiousity (and I want to clarify this is not an underhand way of commenting on your personal intelligence; I only discovered the answer to that question relatively recently - to my shame) to make the case to answer the above convincingly.
You will have to explore quite a few significant things to be able meaningfully answer this and given that your initial comment suggests apologism for western imperialism it may not be in your perceived class interests to research the answer to that question.
You are by no means obliged to answer and if so then I am not committed to expend energy where it may not be fruitful.
I'm not sure that the United States is more democratic, I do know that China is a one party state and because of that don't believe it's in Chinas best interest to be transparent. I think it's in Chinas best interest to maintain the power of the party above all. I think this is fundamentally different from a true democracy, which I'm not convinced the United states is, to promote transparency in political issues because they have competition that they need to be able to keep an eye on when they lose power. Regardless, I'm not sure what domestic policy has to do with the geopolitics of the situation.
You're not obligated to answer anything, but if this kind of thing is supposed to be a priority for you but it's not important enough for you to say what you mean then why would I think this is important enough for me to devote my time to?
Thank you for capitulating.
And to you too. I don't know why you ask people to investigate things that you don't find important enough to share your opinion on, it's a strange way to communicate.
I wasn't sure how sincere you were at first but after that response along with your other comments with thinly veiled bigotry it felt a bit pointless explaining to a first world creationist why the universe was not made in 7 days.
You live in a world where the west is arming, funding and giving political cover to an active genocide. You live in a world where you fail to consider what are the democratic feedback loops that enabled one of the most populous countries in the world lift 800 million people out of poverty in the shortest time frame in human history while being surrounded by vassal states armed and funded against it by the west. You live in a world where the west subjugates the global south for superexploitation of its peoples and resources through gunboat diplomacy, sanctions, coups, and racketeering through financial insitutions such as the IMF. And the countries who manage to attempt to maintain their sovereignty in this hell created and maintained by the west you then dare to wag your bloodied finger from the ivory tower built on the bones of those the west massacred.
Go read the ASPI report on China's technological prowess. Go read the Tricontinental study on the eradication of poverty in China. Go read Vijay Prashad's Washington Bullets. Go read Kyle Ferrana's book on China. Go read the Jakharta Method. Go read the articles on China at redsails.org. Go read the articles on prolewiki. Go watch Michael Parenti on youtube. Go read Capital. Educate yourself.
Most of us on this forum were versions of you; your fate is not set in stone.
You're not obligated to answer anything, but if this kind of thing is supposed to be a priority for you but it's not important enough for you to say what you mean then why would I think this is important enough for me to devote my time to?
Hey I see that your account is only a day old, and I'm not the person you replied to, but to answer your question I'll say this: People come into this space (lemmygrad) with bad faith intentions and as such often its easier to assess if someone wants to engage in good faith or not first.
then why would I think this is important enough for me to devote my time to?
Its important to understand how a country's government functions just as much as its important to understand how your own government functions. So it's important for you, so that we have the same understanding. Otherwise we might just talk past each other.
The West has always prioritized stability and risk management, they’re not likely to change without good cause.
You gotta be kidding me, in what world do you live.
From all of your comments, it seems to me that you think the US is "drawn into war" by your wording in " is fueled by" as if they are innocently responding to an aggressor. Have you ever wonder the possibility that the US is actively seeking war?
None of our answers will make sense to you if you don't defy this fallacious idea of the US being the "reluctant warrior" or "the eternal victim". To destroy this idea, I recommend you this episode from Citations needed -> https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/website/ep-13-the-always-stumbling-us-empire
Realize that China has not been increasing it's military spending relative to GDP.
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=CN-US&start=1989
China does not have an expansive or aggressive posture. The US has about twice the spending as a share of GDP, with a larger nominal GDP. There is nuance to this, but China is absolutely not disproportionately or aggressively building up it's military.
Even in an absolute worst case, apocalyptic, nearly divinely bad scenario of China's population shrinking, it will still be the better part of a century before it sinks to such a drastic level, China is still doing momentously better than the West, has multiple decades to improve and make the population grow again, and it will still be the most technologically and supply-chain advanced country on Earth, to liberate Taiwan from Amerikkkan and British imperialism.
That’s not really what government does in the West
In west government only knows oppress, mind control, and genocide
Edit: did you perchance read stuff where usa propaganda dept was lazy and just swapped "the west" and "china"?
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