OH YEAH THEYRE TALKING ABOUT IT NOW

Please do not remove mods, really sorry for the Google AMP link, but this is a "subscribers only" blocked article on CNN that for some reason AMP just straight up bypasses and opens fine.

Direct link: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/10/us/jury-nullification-luigi-mangione-defense/index.html.

Edit 1: updated title, CNN changed it on me

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[–] 196 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Jury nullification is an important logical conclusion of American jurist rules. This post will stay up.

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    [–] 157 points 2 years ago (28 children)

    Let's not forget, maybe, just maybe, this guy is absolutely innocent, was nowhere near the crime at the time, and had nothing to do with it.

    And the cops, in their over zeal to catch someone, anyone, found a poor unlucky person who looks like the guy in the crime scene photos and handily fabricated the rest of the physical evidence. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

    Seriously, a written statement admitting guilt? How likely is that? Anyway, this is what I think is happening. And I doubt the real truth will ever be known, sadly.

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    [–] 154 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    All the best to Luigi. Good luck to him.

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    [–] 106 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Jury nullification is the term for when a jury declines to convict a defendant despite overwhelming evidence of guilt. This can be a form of civil disobedience, a political statement against a specific law, or a show of empathy and support to the defendant.

    “It’s not a legal defense sanctioned under the law,” said Cheryl Bader, associate professor of law at Fordham School of Law. “It’s a reaction by the jury to a legal result that they feel would be so unjust or morally wrong that they refuse to impose it, despite what the law says.”

    Over the centuries, American juries have nullified cases related to controversial topics like fugitive slave laws, Prohibition and, in recent decades, the war on drugs.

    Giggity.

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  • [–] 85 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    “This is not a case of (Mangione) like throwing blood on this guy as he’s walking into the convention,” Bader said, referring to the scene of the shooting outside an investors’ conference in Midtown Manhattan. “If the jury finds that there’s evidence that he ended this man’s life in cold blood, I don’t see the result being an acquittal because of anger toward the health insurance system.”

    Dumbass

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  • [–] 38 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I don't see the result being acquittal because of the anger toward the health insurance system.

    Feels like Mr. Bader himself might be a little out of touch with just how bad the health insurance system is.

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  • [–] 84 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Repost of my own comment in a different community:

    I would say that jury nullification isn’t just some accident of the legal system, but the primary reason we have juries in the first place.

    Judges will say that juries are meant to just decide the simple facts of the case. But what sane person would ever design a system that assigns 12 random untrained nobodies to do that task? If all that mattered was judging the facts of the case, why not have 12 legal scholars instead? Why isn’t “juror” a profession, just like being a lawyer or judge is? If we want people to just apply the letter of the law to the facts of a case, why not fill juries with professionals, each who had a legal degree, and who have sat as jurors hundreds of times? Judging evidence and reading law is a skill. And it’s one that can be educated on, trained, and practiced. Why do we have amateur juries, when professional juries would clearly do their purported job so much better? Or why not just do what some countries do, and have most or all trials decided solely by judges? What exactly is the point of a jury? Compared to everything else in the courtroom, the jurors, the ones actually deciding guilt or innocence, are a bunch of untrained amateurs. On its face, it makes no damn sense!

    No, the true reason, and really the only reason, we have juries at all is so that juries can serve to judge both the accused AND the law. Juries are meant to be the final line of defense against unjust laws and prosecution. It is possible for a law itself to be criminal or corrupt. Legislative systems can easily be taken over by a tiny wealthy or powerful minority of the population, and they can end up passing laws criminalizing behaviors that the vast majority of the population don’t even consider to be crimes.

    The entire purpose of having a jury is that it places the final power of guilt and innocence directly in the hands of the people. Juries are meant as a final line of defense against corrupt laws passed by a minority against the wishes of the greater majority. An unaccountable elite can pass whatever ridiculous self-serving laws they want. But if the common people simply refuse to uphold those laws in the jury box, those laws are meaningless.

    THAT is the purpose of a jury. It is the only reason juries are worth the trouble. A bunch of rank amateurs will never be able to judge the facts of a case better than actual trained legal scholars with years of experience. But by empowering juries, it places the final authority of the law firmly in the hands of the people. That is the value of having a jury at all.

    Jury nullification is not just some strange quirk or odd loophole in our justice system. It’s the entire reason we have juries in the first place.

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    [–] 76 points 2 years ago*

    Juries also have acquitted some abused women who killed or attacked their husbands, such as Francine Hughes, leading to a wider recognition of what’s known as battered woman syndrome.

    “Juries recognized that before the law did,” Conrad said. “The law is slow to change. Sometimes society changes much more quickly than the law, and that is when jury nullification should come in … We don’t need to have 18th-century law governing 21st-century behavior, and the jury can say so.”

    New phrase added to the American lexicon in 2025 - battered patient syndrome.

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  • [–] 58 points 2 years ago (14 children)

    Hmm, maybe convict him, but give him no penalty and no imprisonment?

    That's a thing, right?

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    [–] 51 points 2 years ago* (25 children)

    Jury nullification doesn't really exist. It's just an attempt to label something the jury decides that you believe goes against the law. The fact is, the jury is part of the law, and the jury can decide what parts of it are relevant, are enforceable in the case, and which need special considerations. Complaining about "jury nullification" is complaining about one of the fewest democratic elements in the judicial system, a system that on its own is almost completely autocratic and as such that much more susceptible to the formation of oligarchies and nepotism from within.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 years ago* (20 children)

    It's actually the conclusion of 2 things:

    • Double Jeopardy means your cannot try someone twice for the same crime
    • A juror cannot be held accountable for a decision they make

    If both hold true, then logically, a jury can make a decision against legal precedent, without fear of repercussion - unless they are paid/coerced to come to that conclusion, and the defendant - once cleared by by a jury - cannot be tried again.

    This means that legally, a jury can say GTFO to jury instructions set by judges.

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    [–] 34 points 2 years ago

    “I wonder whether a jury, whether they get impaneled, really buys his message, hates health care so much that they say, ‘Hey, look, we saw what you did. We know what you did, but we’ll excuse it,’” CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson said last month.

    Sure, 'hating healthcare' is the issue here...

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Please, please, god don't put me on the jury. I would hate to hold a murderer accountable for getting in the way of an innocent man's bullets.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago

    I've been on a jury in the last little place I lived and you better believe they made sure it was all employed older white people against a young black man. I was the youngest on at 28. What they did to me is made me sit in a room with these, some probably decent, people, while one guy just talked and talked and lied and told fake stories like long discredited shit while a bunch were like oh yeah and I remember.

    Fucking makes me sick. Sick at myself that I was such a little shit at that age that I didn't tell the old prick to shut the fuck up and stop lying. But what really makes me sick was after sitting in a room for hours with these people is the state's house slave walks in with cops and says we just walked the guy by, showed him who was going to convict him, and he took the plea deal. Fucking gross. Don't believe your fucking TV this is how most cases go.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    Why the hell is CNN charging a subscription now? Are people really stupid enough to pay it?

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    [+] 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)
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    [–] 19 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    the whole point of a jury is to allow the people to decide the law on individual cases. There are many problems with juries, but complaining about jury nullification just means you don't like the good parts of having a jury.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Honestly, I'm amazed Luigi hasn't had an "accident" in jail

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    [–] 15 points 2 years ago* (20 children)

    I am going to cross fingers for it, but wouldn’t the state just resue in a higher court?

    I really don’t think that even a dem controlled supreme court would allow it, but a republican one? We will be lucky if Luigi isn’t yahoo-ed

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Really hope this is fully televised.

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