Misinformation drove these people to vote for Trump. This is going be leopard eating their faces. Sad and shows just how much fake videos and misinformation can influence our elections.

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[–] 100 points 2 years ago (28 children)

We can blame voters or fix our media landscape. You can do both, but we need to do the latter to have a functioning democracy.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (14 children)

    How would you fix something that isn't broken? This is what for-profit capitalist media does and has always done. Manufacturer consent for capitalism and its desires. Regulation in the past made it mildly less obvious? I mean they still breathlessly covered and promoted the Red Scare a half a century ago.

    Not to mention that state and nonprofit media still have issues. How would one fix any of them? The only way to fix the media is to fix the voters. Actually teach critical thinking stills and encourage them. Not gullibly devouring anything fed to you unquestioningly.

    You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. All the information to debunk every claim ever made by Trump is out there. All anyone has to do is look. But most people cannot be bothered. They will just go with whatever hearsay they see on Facebook.

    On that note I recently had to deal with my sister getting a bit frothy. Raging about how the Harris administration had spent so much more money than the Trump administration had on some meaningless thing. I had to insert myself and point out if there had never been a Harris administration. And that not even the Biden Administration had done what she was talking about.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago* (6 children)

    only way to fix the media is to fix the voters.

    This narrative serves the capitalist class and cannot be proven. You don't "fix" voters, you create solidarity by dealing with their material conditions (engage in mutual aid).

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Solidarity is great. And I I'm all for it. But how do you have solidarity with a group of people that cannot even agree on what constitutes reality. How do you address the material conditions of people who reject addressing the material conditions if it also helps someone who isn't them.

    The answer is you cannot. Not until critical thinking skills Etc are addressed. As long as people are blindly ideological of any stripe. There can't be solidarity

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sure, stopping billion dollar, profit-driven corporate media conglomerates should be super easy.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Honestly, "corporate mainstream media sucks" is a thing most people agree on. I know a guy who voted for Trump at least once who has been turning away from that kind of politics lately, and it's this kind of message I hear him repeating. Now, I'm sure we have different views on how to solve that and what alternative sources should be used, but if it's something to agree on, then maybe it's a point of leverage.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    part of me wishes that the democrats spent money to put up a decent fight against the VERY rampant misinformation in spanish media instead of using the money to attack third party candidates.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Third party candidates are often part of the misinformation machine. Used as an attack Vector as well. The problem is Democrats cannot address everything. Oligarchs fund conservative media more than most people realize. So many outlets exist just to push a narrative. Not to make a profit. Tim Pool and several other right-wing demagogues were recently exposed for getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars effectively a week to put out one or two low effort barely edited videos of propaganda. They made more in a couple weeks than someone like Sam Cedar for instance makes in a year. And they are just the ones we know about. Democrats simply cannot compete with or push back against all of it with the minuscule funding they do get.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    the democrats literally broke campaign fund raising records and their donor list includes some of the richest oligarchs on this planet.

    it was clear that they barely tried at all on univision and telemundo based on the professionally-polished trump-loving pundits mopping the floor with unpracticed volunteers and nonprofits; it was like watching the debate but in reverse with trump's side dominating the discourse just as hard as kamala did.

    i think that the democrats just assumed that latinos would vote for them anyways like they did with almost everyone else.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    They do it every 4 years only. Republicans break unofficial funding records daily. Wealthy capitalist financiers pump untold sums of money into media outlets to provide campaign messaging constantly. 24/7/365 every year. Dwarfing every single record Democrats have broken summed together. Just of the tip of the iceberg we know. Tim pool was being paid by your buddies the Russians / Putin in the realm of millions of dollars. For making one to two minimally edited propaganda videos per week. Every 2 weeks he would double what someone like Sam Cedar earns in a year. It's why there's such a disparity in messaging Democrats don't have those kind of resources or accessibilities.

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    "I didn't do anything beyond confirm my own biases. Why are things this terrible all of a sudden? I didn't want this!"

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  • [–] 68 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    Tell me you haven't spent much time in the naturalized Latino community, hanging out, asking them about where they came from, asking how they feel about illegal immigrants, without, you know, telling me.

    After trump called every stripe of latino, rapists and murderers, and threatened mass deportations, out loud, and often, more latinos voted for donald trump in this election than have ever voted for any republican candidate in any american election before.

    It's deluded and destructive, but this is the reality on the ground.

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  • [–] [S] 37 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Well I won't feel sorry for them when they get deported along with all the "illegals " they chose the leopard to eat their face on purpose.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    yes. agreed. though, once again, working in the community, really opened up my eyes to what a great many naturalized citizens feel is important to them. not all, of course, but it shocked the shit out of me, and no one would have believed it until after they voted.

    *edit: it's important to know what your constituency values, and if those things run counter to the basis of secular egalitarian representative democracy, change their minds. just saying well that's stupid and self destructive to the whole, isn't going to win their votes.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I know all about it. I worked in the flooring industry. A lot illegal immigrants doing that work, and some had Trump stickers and blue lives matter stickers.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    yep, same, when the guys i work around told me that trump was going to win in 2016, i bet all of them 5 grand he wasn't. i was positive clinton wasn't going to let that happen. glad none of them took me up on it. didn't make that bet this time around with anyone.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    So they hate themselves? Or are they delusional enough to think that the Trump administration will weed out the "good" latinos from the "bad" ones?

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The ones that voted are by definition here legally, and they're susceptible to the propaganda about illegals coming in and taking jobs and getting all sorts of resources from the government. If you believe that, while your path to citizenship was anything but that, you might start thinking something needs to be done about the border too.

    While the border wall stuff is definitely rooted into racism, the economic argument will still speak to immigrants that are in the country legally. Of course, if Trump is serious about "rounding up illegals" or whatever the plan is, a lot of legal residents will also end up caught in the drag net, and it's going to suck for everyone.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    for the republicans it literally doesn't matter. they can make up any reason. the eating people pets thing is one example. for some reason people eat this nonsense up gladly. rly shattered my faith in humanity again.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    to answer this honestly more than dips the toe into racist stereotypes, and i'd like to have the honest conversation but will suffice to say, the guys i know (and this isn't limited to that small group) appreciate strength, and a heavy hand from their government, almost above all other things.

    it would have been advantageous for democrats to have pointed out that, by and large, the nations from which a majority have immigrated from, are corrupt, and dangerous to the point where a living wage is unattainable, and the organs of state either could not or would not keep them and their families safe.

    that is what the united states can offer, with a government of by and for the people. now we fall considerably short of this, all the time, and have since the founding fathers, but we have an engine of economy, and relative comparative safety which continue to draw latino immigrants, legal and otherwise.

    it's in pointing out the benefits, of a free egalitarian secular representative accountable democracy, which drew they and their families here in the first place, and explain, in detail, how corruption that the MAGA world was threatening, and displayed during Trump's first term, would destroy all that they had come to this country for in the first place.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    I've heard it largely stated as an exaggeration equated to when Obama and Biden said there'd be amnesty for non-criminals, but it never happened. "Better the devil you know" applies here, but they largely think Fed's eye is too big to see them in their small corners.

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  • [+] 19 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
    [–] 19 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    "turning to Youtube" doesn't really say much one way or another. There is a wide range of content from professional media over smaller alternative media outlets over individual opinion pieces to manufactured disinformation from state actors all hosted on Youtube.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    The algorithm doesn't really send you down the helpful rabbit holes in my experience. Every reasonable video on YouTube is like two away from Infowars level content.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    This is why critical thinking is such an important skill. We have entire portions of the population who legitimately believe they are well informed while actually understanding nothing.

    It's just a symptom of a bigger problem. Poor access to good education for anyone but the super rich will lead to this. So will demonization of higher ed.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago

    If only there was some warning that disinformation was going to play a role in the election.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Some of my fellow Chicanos can be stupid motherfuckers. They're proud of being Mexican yet ignore the racist shit spewed by Trump and vote for him anyways for "the economy." I'm a full citizen but I really hope the naturalized ones who voted for him lose their citizenship and get deported. It's like pulling the ladder behind you is such a self destructive human instinct.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    Please don’t give up or condemn these people.

    Keep in mind the total bombardment of right wing propaganda they are under.

    All you need is to look at YouTube for an example. With a fresh account, or anything you search you’re quickly overrun with right wing, “anti woke”, Jordan Peterson type garbage.

    These working class people are also victims of ruling class fascists. We all have to fight for each other now, or they will pick us off one by one.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago* (13 children)

    If everyone watched MeidasTouch for the political/legal news, America would be far saner and harder to dupe. Its the only media outlet I have any respect or hope for

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  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Trump's election seems/feels like reoccurring issue with short term memory, long term planning, critical thinking, and reading deficiencies amoung the American population.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    All the direct result of decades worth of work by Republicans to erode public education and vilify ‘expertise’ as a concept.

    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” - Isaac Asimov

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  • [+] 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Shit, I remember reading about a quasi-secretive government agency called the NSA that was listening in to your phone calls and it was called batshit insane.

    After Snowden, they just pretended like of course it was always there and why would anyone ever not know they were monitoring communications of course they were it's national security - and nobody said another fucking word.

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  • [+] 14 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    They all use extreme and misleading hyperbole and clickbait in their titles and thumbnails that have a strained-at-best relationship with objective facts and the subject at hand. Saying that Jack Smith is winding down his cases against Trump is not “BIG news on FEDERAL PROSECUTION of TRUMP before inauguration!!!”, for example. BTC is particularly noteworthy for this.

    This is literally why I've come to call them mierdas touch and have specifically never clicked on a video of theirs. The trend of all these asshats to do this with EVERY story is just infuriating, pakman and all.

    I scroll through YouTube and it's just "Trump WRECKED by new BOMBSHELL!" "New polling DESTROYED Trump!" "Trump FEARS this koala!" "The left DOMINATED a sandwich" I never click on anything like that and the shit they say is never true to the emotion they put behind the title. No that poll didn't WRECK anyone. No Jack Smith didn't DESTROY anyone. No the left didn't DOMINATE that sandwich...

    ...the koala though. Everyone should fear the koala...

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    Average American political literacy.

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