I have a more detailed comment with my issues in this thread, and other people have brought up other issues, but can I just say how dull and serious the names of both of the new comms are? I thought we were trying have a good time around here

I am probably this site's number one dunk/dredge tank hater and I still think this was an awful decision fwiw - both comms, while occasionally nauseating with how some users would fill it with screenshots of a tweet from a 50-follower account, were probably some of the more active comms on this site besides chat, mutual aid, and chapomainhouse.

Honestly if you're gonna get rid of the tanks, get rid of Electoralism and Politics too because I see both literally becoming essentially the same thing in about 6 months. Hell, let's throw out Games too because eh - 90% of the posts there are almost no effort.

I feel like trying to "clean up" this site kind of goes against the entire ethos of what this thing was in the first place

This kind of feels like old-school forum admin mindset, just being annoying and ruining the fun for no reason even though no one ever asked for that

The name change is fine though that was fucked up when I learned that

From the message going around it sounds like this was more about reducing inter-instance admin drama. If that was part of it, fine, and overall this 'struggle' is not a huge deal, but the way this has been handled does feel disheartening and reduces my trust in the management of this space.

It feels like some people got mad that dredge got around rule 8 and this is their way of blowing everything up in response.

With the name, couldn't it just be /c/dunking or /c/dunks something? "Dunking on" someone comes from basketball and afaik it doesn't carry any racist affiliation.

Besides, "gossip" makes it sound like I'm supposed to be trading rumors about DirtOwl or something, and "counterpropaganda" seems to have a high bar of effort to be replacing something that was basically just "get a load of this guy"

The dunk/dredge comms might've been unproductive but were they _anti_productive?

If y'all want to make the site more serious and action focused, cool. But did these comms actively harm that? Can we not have both?

Did Trump's win really scared the admins that much?

I rarely, if ever, comment on these kind of editorial or mod decisions. In part because I really appreciate the vast majority of what mods here volunteer to do and recognise the hard graft they put in just to keep this place going without it going off the rails. Partly because, as much as I'm very fond of this community and some of the things we've achieved - as well as it being an oasis in a sea of constant turned-up-to-11 reactionary shit both online and off - it is still just a website I enjoy contributing to or just reading. It's not my life or social space or vessel for my activism.

So while no one has to, I hope you'll indulge me in this rare instance I weigh in...

I think replacing the comm, if simply renaming it is tricky, is a good idea. That particular racist connotation isn't worth the (admittedly fitting) name, and plenty of users have suggested others. If for reasons of technical ease or federation gremlins it's better to delete or lock the old comm and replace it, sure, sounds good.

That being said, this odd split and potential intent change of the comms, complicated by vague and ill-defined rules (what is a public person online, who is notable, what is the threshold for influence etc?) seems like a pretty ill-conceived idea being messaged in an even more cack-handed way. Having read the entirety of this thread, that seems pretty clear by the general reaction that this is the common sentiment (even if I don't agree with all of the reasons posted).

Plenty of other people have made similar points rather well, but I think there's merit and value in having a simple space where people can post terrible takes, examples of disingenuous or reactionary narratives, or brainworms on full display. Ridicule can be a tool that's effective in talking with people and dismantling especially knee-jerk unthinking reactionary narratives. But I'd also argue that the ability to throw down an absurdly reactionary or unhinged take for ridicule and have comrades instinctively understand why it's worthy of such, is a kind of bonding and being seen that most people don't get in their every day lives. And that had value too.

The proposed names are also dreadful. Aside from the negative and potentially sexist connotations of 'gossip' as pointed out by others, that also sounds to me like a comm that's for inside baseball about Hexbear, not ridicule of 'notable figures'. Counterpropaganda is slightly better, but still seems to be pitched as essentially deciding to debate into the void. I feel like strong, simple counters to reactionary clichés often get posted in the comments of dunk tank posts, regardless of whether it's presented with an explanation or not. I also think that the creator of a post laying out exactly why it's bullshit predetermines why it is bullshit, and potentially discourages (explicitly or not) other takes on why these reactionary thoughts are nonsense. Many of the best, most succinct counterpoints I've seen and used from the dunk tank were because a user was looking at why the posted content was worthless or reactionary in a totally different way than me.

Mostly I'm just perplexed by what the motivation is behind these changes, even after reading the comments mods have taken the time to write in active response.Rather than continue to ramble, although I'm likely to have more to say, I suppose it might be more useful for me to ask some questions of the mods, devs, and anyone else who wants to weigh in...

• Is there an issue with the amount of moderation required and generated by these comms? Is the rule change or differently pitched comms because mods are spending too much time removing potentially reactionary posts that are too vague about what is the intended target of 'dunking' etc?

• Does the mod / dev team percieve an issue with the tone of the majority of posts in these comms? If so, what is it?

• Does any of this stem from concerns about ther 'seriousness' of the site or the amount of jokey / outwardly hostile that appear within the top posts, either locally or for visitors? If so, to what degree?

• What other reasons or concerns do the mods/devs/other users have about these comms beyond the need for a name change? There's been some passing mention of 'low effort' posts, but can you clarify what you mean or why such posts are a negative thing for the community?

I'll leave it there for now as I've already probably typed too much.

On board with most people here saying it shouldn't be called gossip, and getting rid of the racist pun is cool and good.

But if we're still allowing shitreactionariessay to be federated with Hexbear, then I don't see why we can't have that content on a local comm now that people can block individual communities.

People who don't like that content don't need to see it, I don't understand this ongoing trend of insistence that no one else should see it on a local Hexbear comm either. Especially when so many comrades have shared how these communities serve as sanity checks, the one place we can reaffirm to ourselves and to our comrades that the reactionary slog of our everyday lives is neither necessary nor normal.

And as others have brought up, lemmygrad is a sectarian space, meaning all that's essentially changed is that we no longer have a left unity space for this type of content on our federation network.

Sitewide or community changes come from proposals put forth from the mod team, discussed, and voted on by the mod team.

Could any of this discussion be made public? The revelation that one of the mods of the tank actively hates it makes this seem hollow

Uncritical support to comrade debatebroX for working tirelessly to get us to 1k

I suggest to change whatever the new main Dredge tank replacement is to

• /c/pit

or

• /c/Barbara_Pit

Just here for the ratio and to second everyone else who is saying changing the name is good but it’s not necessary to also change the nature of the communities themselves especially while also leaving out an appropriate analogue for the dredge tank(gossip is a totally different thing)

for rooting out racist or reactionary content

for turning my no effort but fun and ready for engagement screenshot of a moron on Twitter into an effortpost. That’s not what I’m posting for, and isn’t natural or the intention behind the post. I don’t think I need to specify why Elon Musk saying coups are good is actually bad. It’s just going to discourage engagement over a technicality.

for there being a part of this site dedicated to breaking down newsy, social, or otherwise in the cultural zeitgeist things into close readings for discussion/rhetoric/educational purposes, but turning an almost shitposting level comm into that is bad because they aren’t the same thing. I actually made and pinned this post in /agitprop for more extensive news breakdown purposes. We should just have a /seriousnews comm with a Megathread for more in depth discussions than the regular news Megathread which trends towards more general and less nuanced discussion

And then another because as an autistic person this doesn’t feel accessible at all. I really don’t understand where I’m supposed to post because this leave a huge grey area of overlap, and I also don’t easily understand at all what is supposed to be posted in either of those comms. Essentially, the purpose of having a /main in the first place is to have a place that covers the grey area. I know I’m not alone in saying that when I’m not sure where to post something I send it to /chapotraphouse. This change is just going to forcibly turn /chapotraphouse into /main by creating a barrier to contribution and engagement.

Overall because this change is just going to make people post less and have less overall engagement. Create both of those new comms and open up /main or an equivalent for ANY post except for exceptionally sensitive or NSFW posts/topics, then let mods crosspost things from main to comms they moderate without making it exclusive to a comm or removing it from /main

Why the hex bear is not hex. I am scared.

Let's see UlyssesT wriggle his way out of this one.

>the thread is approaching 1200 replies

I don't really have a strong opinion on this change either way, but I just want to say I looked up the history of "dunk tanks" just now and holy shit Amerikkka is such a brain diseased country