this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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Today I Learned

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

The prohibition on public exposure of breasts by women and girls over 10 years old is now gone from the city code as of this week.

I never thought I'd be conflicted on this, because I am absolutely of the opinion that female breasts and nipples shouldn't be treated as exclusively sexual body parts, especially since men have them too and we aren't held to that standard.

But being confronted with the idea that 10-17 year old girls can now bare their breasts in public without restraint reminds me that treating female bodies as non-sexual is great as an ethos, but it is not reflective of reality, and that this specifically could be problematic.

But how to solve it? You can't make it an 18+ only rule, or you're further entrenching the idea that female breasts are exclusively sexual and adult, but if you let teens and tweens go topless, they will be sexualized / ogled / photographed by adult men, and that's a bad precedent to set as acceptable. We usually treat photographs of underage female breasts as a form of CSAM, but can we still say that if we're treating female breasts as non-sexual? This is an interesting new line to draw, given societal attitudes on adolescent nudity.

Regretfully, I believe that the true problem is men. The reason women have to cover their breasts is because they have to protect themselves from men. I'm all for bodily liberation and the de-sexualization of female existence, but we need an overhaul on our society's attitudes towards women in general if we're going to get there. Maybe bare breasts help get us there. Maybe girls need to learn the right way how to kick a man in the balls before they go topless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 hour ago

Comments like this are why I left reddit. This is a completely hinged and totally reasonable thought process that calls in a question, a lot of facets of the issue and ways them against each other appropriately. Maybe something more crazy would spark a bunch more replies but I totally like that Lemmy is a place that just lets people be normal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

To answer your question, it could be legal grey area because not all pictures depicting nudity are automatically considered pornographic, if you are speaking in terms of legal precedent regarding obscenity in the US.

To further muddy the issue, photographing other peoples kids is considered creepy by nearly everyone but it isn't expressly illegal unless certain localities have specific statutes against it. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public places, so you have the potential situation where people are doing a presumptively legal activity in a public area where photographing that activity could be illegal depending on... intent?

Further, the courts have ruled that getting naked in public in the act of protesting something is part of protected speech. Presumably that applies to people of all ages and sexes as well but I doubt it has ever been tested.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 47 minutes ago

Tits are not sex organs.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Why is it not legal everywhere that it is for men? This is ass backwards lol. I just always assumed it was more of a women saying "not gonna do that cause pervs" type thing and how overly sexualized boobs are

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago

Well you're kinda right. I've lived in BC and the Yukon where it's fully legal for women to go topless and I know quite a few who have, for shorter events like naked bike ride etc. But most of them intelligently choose not to at public beaches and whatnot because of the ick factor.

I know one lady who did choose to go topless on a hot summer day in a fairly major downtown center and was accosted by cops whom she had to argue with (gladly, and loudly) for over an hour to explain to them that she was breaking no laws. They were trying to pressure her to re-robe because they were getting complaints, but again it's true that she was breaking no laws at all. They couldn't in the end do anything about it, and rightly so.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (2 children)

It's a straw man / non issue.

In Germany are public places marked as FKK (Freikörper Kultur = Full Nudity in Public), which are literally normal areas without any special consideration in terms of visibility. Best case: There is a sign notifying the squeamish that there could be Nudity... normal Case: No one gives a fuck.

Heck, the best public baths are the sauna/thermal baths with are mandatory nude, age restriction 16+....

It has no sexual meaning .. you go there, everyone is naked after 10 seconds of slight awkwardness, you forget about it and enjoy the freedom of "no cold and wet swimwear" on the body.

It's great!

I doubt Americans are different in that perspective.

Edit: Perverts won't have fun there. The people are average and mostly old and the behavior is casual. It's like seeing your mom or dad naked. The few People who could get off on this have issues.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (2 children)

I doubt Americans are different in that perspective

Lmao

That's all I came to say

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 hours ago

exactly, we're so regressive here that some parents just never even talk to their children about sex or their bodies because they are too ashamed to bring up the topic. nudity in public would not go over well

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

But I thought they love "freedom" over everything?

You didn't experience freedom when you never took a thermal bath and grilled your balls in the sun... :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

"freedom" as in "free to economic growth" but not "free" as in "free to do what you want"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 hours ago

Hey I'm not saying you're wrong about that lol But America is full of hypocrisies.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Women being topless is legally allowed literally everywhere in Canada.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

And if you're not comfortable with people seeing you topless, just head further north, where there's no people anymore

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

I'm guessing toplessness gets rarer as it gets colder, long before you run out of people.

Or as we Brits (of any gender) might say: "I'm freezing me tits off"

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

New York, too! And a few other states, I think.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

amendment the constitution. the right to bare tiddies

[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

In America, here in France is a right nationwide ✊

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

I assume it's because France is a sane country.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 hours ago

So this body freedom is ok.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

grrr muc opreson

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 hours ago (6 children)

New York too. Or is it just the city?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

But we do have cabaret laws in NYC that say you can’t dance in an establishment without a license for dancing which is super dum dum.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Yup legal in NY.

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