this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024
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Rogues beeing Rogues
@[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 117 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (7 children)

Reminds me of why torture as a means of information gathering is ridiculous.

I will absolutely tell you what I think you want to hear when you start stabbing me, whether its the truth or I ever knew it at all.

But I also hate you for torturing me, so If I do happen to know the thing then I also know enough about the thing to alter the answer to something false but plausible for a moment of relief while you act on it, because we all know if you're torturing me, you have no intention of letting me out alive.

This is why the lets be pals/wine and dine approach is more effective.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well, real pros say:

"Thanks for finally providing some info. We are going to go corroborate it. If you lied, or if we can't find convincing evidence your info was right, we will take this conversation up with your wife/kid/family"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Joel did that in last of us

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Joel pretended to do that in the last of us, only to turn around saying "I believe your friend" and killing the second guy immediately.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Well they really shouldn't have stabbed him to begin with!

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago

This is why I liked the how Torture skill in Burning Wheel does just this: you decide what the victim says. It's not true, it's just what they admit to.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Yeah but I have a friendly cleric. Zone of Truth doesn't care about how you feel regarding your interrogation.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

Zone of truth removes the need for torture. You can interrogate someone without causing physical or psychological harm.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They do still have the option to remain silent, though, as per the spell text. It doesn't compel an answer, it only compels any spoken word to be the truth as you know it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

Speak with dead + zone of truth, I now have an incentive to kill you if you don't cooperate

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

You don't torture for the truth, though... causing physical and psychological harm is the whole point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Yeah, sure, but where’s the fun in that?

Pulls out skinning knife.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Who says we torture because we need to?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Which is why you get the deets, stab anyways, check for accuracy. If incorrect, revive, repeat.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

The CIA hates this one weird trick!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

I doubt their soul would be willing to be revived just to be tortured and killed again.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago

Read the manual.

Pain can be efficient or counterproductive depending on the individual. The threat or pain is usually more efficient than the pain itself. Your "let's be pal" approach is not far from the KUBARK's recommendations, but it is not incompatible with coercitive methods: On the contrary several of these consist in putting the interrogatee in a state where the interrogator is perceived as a reassuring presence.

Context about the kubark manual on Wikipedia

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

That what the brits did to get Germans to talk in WW2

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

You can either tell me what I want to know, or your corpse can. slaps Speak with Dead Scroll against palm

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

Speak with dead doesn't mean the corpse is going to give the informations if the living person hated you.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Reasons why I like systems that have rules for this sort of thing.

"Sure, you can torture the captive. That's a rank 8 check against Violence, so go ahead and roll. Oh, you don't want to risk any mechanical consequences for your horrible actions? Ok then"

I feel like there's a lot of overlap between powergaming min/maxers and war crime doers. It really keeps players in check without having to resort to hand wave-y deus ex machina like "it turns out the bartender is a level 20 barbarian lol"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

rank 8 check against Violence? huh

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago

That's from Unknown Armies (2e). A great game with a great rulebook. It really made me think about some assumptions I'd been making about how games work.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 months ago

Holy fuckin shit that's the coldest Intimidation roll I've seen in fifteen years

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago

jester and nott basically