If the genders were flipped here the person aggressively trying to have sex would be called a rapist… I’m not trying to have an argument about nuance, only pointing out that society defaults to a woman being a potential victim in the exact situation they would label a man a predator. The irony being if you “went along with it”, even if you did not necessarily want to, you would then be labeled the rapist. So a man on either side of this situation is a rapist if sex happens and the woman is under all circumstances the victim.

Thank you for your comment. You literally made me cry. You are right.

e: not sure what I said wrong. I was being genuine.

I've had a similar experience. In my early adulthood, I fell hard for a girl at my school. She liked me back and we flirted for months.

Eventually, things escalate at a party and she ends up coming back with me to my dorm room. She crawls into my bed next to me and immediately pretends to fall asleep.

I'm young, inexperienced and nervous and not really sure what I'm supposed to do in that situation. So I end up laying there pretending to sleep as well. After a couple hours she gets up and leaves without a word or acknowledgement.

And thus that fling came to an end. I was devastated and confused. I asked her friends what went wrong and apparently the expectation was that I was supposed to make a move on her while she was "sleeping" and the fact that I didn't signaled that I wasn't interested. She took it as a rejection and left with hurt feelings.

We were young and dumb and as far as I'm concerned I did the right thing. I only wish I had the brains and maturity to communicate my feelings better at the time. But it's always struck me as weird that in that moment I was "supposed" to do what essentially amounts to sexual assault.

Some men have told me I was crazy to pass up the "opportunity". And some women have told me that I was a "gentleman" for doing so.

I don't know why men are so awful sometimes. But I think a big part of the problem is that taking advantage of women is normal and accepted.

The term "rape culture" is often misunderstood, lampooned, etc. but that's a really good distillation of it. SA is not "encouraged" in a legal sense, it's punished, but there is a cultural expectation of men to be uncontrollably sexually aggressive while women are supposed to "defend their virtue".

If men aren't sufficiently sexually assertive, they are often seen as less masculine. This isn't always the case - it can support the conception of masculinity as being chivalrous. But can also be viewed as being more passive, less virile, less strong, etc.

If women are perceived not successfully "defending their virtue", it's seen as a failure on their part except sometimes in extreme cases of sexual violence if seen as being "unprovoked". Hence the "look what she was wearing", "asking for it", etc. etc. tropes. These are often less overt now, which causes people to overlook the extent to which they blame women for being victims of SA.

Rape culture - it's defo a thing and that's it.

Every woman I am friends with have all told me that the bar for men is on the fucking ground and they still find a way to get under it.

The reason why men are awful is because of the privilege that the patriarchy gives men. As a man, you have to actively reject that privilege.

If you don't, you end up like Brand, Weinstein, Stawell, Tate, and Masterson.

Also, sorry that the other person tried to attack you tho. I'm glad that one of you was sane enough at the moment to be like NOPE.

The whole PUA culture from like 2012-2016 was basically built around people like brand. People would invent entire personalities just to score. At that point surely just pay for it? I guess their egos can't handle it.

Without details, I'm just back here screaming "Good god, get yourself out of emotionally unsafe situations!" Someone tried to assault you.

That wouldn’t be considered harassment on her part?

Your point isn’t lost on me, but…

You should probably have a serious talk about the nature and effects of rape with those men. Someone needs to intervene with people like that.

The situation you are describing is absolutely dangerous for everyone involved.

Dangerous for the unconscious and vulnerable girl who could be taken advantage of ... and dangerous for the sober (or at least conscious) male who is involved in the situation.

I'm a single older man and I live in practical fear of being alone with a woman, especially younger women. I don't want to do anything to anyone nor do I have the desire to do so ... but if I'm ever caught alone with someone in a compromising situation, all it would take would be a rumor or accusation and my reputation is done for. It's not the fault of the victims, its the fault of society where everyone is in constant fear and in a constant search for victims and predators.

This isn't a denial that terrible things and terrible people exist or that people can be victimized, it's just that the level of trust in the world is eroded and sometimes, all you have to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time and your social life is destroyed by the fears and anxieties of society.

This is the reason why I absolutely avoid drinking parties and bars ... I'm over 30 years sober and actively avoid any people that want to get drunk or stoned. There are far too many situations where people can be victimized in drunken events .. as well as too many opportunities for people to be falsely accused. Stay safe out there.