552
Get in line (thelemmy.club)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] CokeVoAYCE@lemmy.world -5 points 1 day ago

as a former drug user i can tell you for certain drugs are not just to deal with poverty. it's part of it but it's probably not even the majority of it. and yeah, you can say "capitalism" is the reason why jobs left michigan, but that's not an argument for communism that's an argument for better regulated capitalism. OP is comparing capitalism to communism in terms of poverty, and the poverty caused by capitalism isn't even in the same stratosphere and poverty caused by communism. communism had people starving to death, capitalism at least has keeps everyone fed. nobody starves to death in america. my point is communism doesn't work especially compared to capitalism and i was being a bit hyperbolic in my original comment. also, gangs are not solely the product of capitalism either, nor is poverty, so linking the two when communisms failures are a direct link to the problems they cause as opposed to capitalism having problems but those problems not being caused by capitalism is the difference.

[-] SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago

the poverty caused by capitalism isn't even in the same stratosphere

You're right! Poverty caused by capitalism is orders of magnitude worse! Gini coefficient is a much better way to measure poverty.

nobody starves to death in america

21,020 people died from malnutrition in the US in 2022 as a primary cause of death. 20,552 of those were from the "not enough to eat" kind of malnutrition, 468 were from the "not enough nutrition" kind.

Expanding it to secondary causes, which gets a bit trickier to cite as you need to use the cdc's WONDER search, has 85,406 which will includes most of the diabetic, anorexia, metabolic, absorption, immunologic, etc. kind of situations.

Using that broader definition results in 513,987 people dying, primarily or from complications due to malnutrition, in the 2018-2024 range.

What capitalism does do a good job of though is masking the reality of this kind of starvation.

communisms failures are a direct link to the problems they cause

You want to define those failures? I can draw a direct line from the failures I have outlined above and the underlying causes inherent within the capitalist means of production. Can you do the same for communism?

[-] CokeVoAYCE@lemmy.world -2 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

You're right! Poverty caused by capitalism is orders of magnitude worse! Gini coefficient is a much better way to measure poverty.

No, the Gini coefficient is not a good measure of poverty. It is a statistical tool that measures income or wealth inequality—how evenly or unevenly resources are spread across an entire population—rather than tracking who falls below a specific minimum standard of living.


21,020 people died from malnutrition in the US in 2022 as a primary cause of death. 20,552 of those were from the "not enough to eat" kind of malnutrition, 468 were from the "not enough nutrition" kind.

i am talking about starvation, not malnutrition that's combined with other illnesses that result in death. those are two different things. starvation is a direct death due to caloric insufficiency, where you will see emaciated bodies with bloated stomachs. now, is there starvation in america?:

Pure, unadulterated starvation (absolute lack of available calories) is exceedingly rare as a direct cause of death in the United States. Instead, public health data tracks broader categories like malnutrition. According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) data analyzed across recent decades, tens of thousands of deaths annually (approaching or exceeding 20,000 per year) list malnutrition as a contributing or primary factor, heavily concentrated among the elderly, individuals with severe dementia, or those facing severe underlying chronic illnesses. Meanwhile, millions of Americans face Feeding America defined food insecurity (lacking consistent access to adequate food), though this rarely translates to absolute caloric starvation. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

death by starvation is NOT the same as death by malnutrition from groups with other underlying illnesses like severe dementia or the extremely elderly.


You want to define those failures?

in communism:

Scholars estimate that tens of millions of people died from man-made and politically induced starvation under 20th-century communist regimes. The vast majority of these starvation deaths occurred in China and the Soviet Union due to radical agricultural collectivization, forced grain requisitions, and failed economic social engineering projects. [1, 2]

Major Famines and Death Tolls

  • The Great Chinese Famine (1959–1961): Part of Mao Zedong’s Great Leap Forward, this disaster caused an estimated 15 to 55 million deaths, making it the largest famine in human history. [1, 2, 3, 4]
  • The Holodomor in Ukraine (1932–1933): Joseph Stalin's forced collectivization and confiscation of food supplies in Soviet Ukraine resulted in approximately 3.5 to 5 million deaths. [1, 2]
  • Soviet Famine of 1932–1933 (Overall): Beyond Ukraine, severe collectivization policies and starvation across other parts of the Soviet Union—including Kazakhstan and the North Caucasus—led to an additional 5.7 to 8.7 million total deaths. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
  • Other Regimes: Smaller-scale or localized famines and food deprivations occurred in North Korea, Cambodia, and Ethiopia under communist or Marxist-Leninist governance. [1, 2]

notice the difference; TENS OF MILLIONS dead by STARVATION vs ten of thousands due to malnutrition. do you honestly believe people are starving to death in america? have you seen an emaciated body with a bloated stomach in america? if so, please show me it.

instead of spreading propaganda of failed systems that have proven to result in mass famine how about suggesting ways to improve the systems we currently know to work best?

[-] SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

tracking who falls below a specific minimum standard of living.

It's a terrible measure as it more often than not just shows a "lack of overall resources" which is impossible to disentangle from a myriad of other external factors. Gini coefficient shows resource distribution efficiency and is much better at disentangling "poverty due to external factors" from "poverty due to internal(socioeconomic) factors".

starvation is a direct death due to caloric insufficiency, where you will see emaciated bodies with bloated stomachs. now, is there starvation in america?

Did you read any of your sources?! From your NLM source:

Malnutrition is defined as a decrease in muscle and cell mass caused by an insufficient amount of nutrient intake or absorption, which leads to impaired mental and physical function, reduced quality of life, and poor health outcomes.

It's defining the exact "emaciated body" you're claiming doesn't exist!

A FUCKING REDDIT LINK! THAT'S YOUR PRIMARY EVIDENCE! WTF!

USDA link: 16% of people rely on breadlines for their calories. Yes. Then you find the 0.06% people dying from malnourishment surprising!? What are you trying to say with this?

/r/AskALiberal reddit link... 🤡🤡🤡

It's all around you! It is significantly more rare than suicides or vehicular deaths which are also all around you and I bet you remain oblivious to all of those.

death by starvation is NOT the same as death by malnutrition from groups with other underlying illnesses like severe dementia or the extremely elderly.

Correct, those underlying illnesses are included within the broader ~56k number I cited earlier. Granted elderly without underlying illness would likely be classified in the ~21k though, don't see how that changes anything though.

In communism

I should be more mad at the number of links you provided to Facebook fearmongering but frankly it's about what I expected.

You did not define what you mean by "communism" nor did you provide any sources with actual information on what communism is. Other than "it's all the bad stuff from the Soviet Union and/or China"

If you're going to blame "communism" you need to understand what it is so you can point to what causes the failure mode. I'm not denying the failures in China and the USSR, I am saying you have not done a 1:1 comparison and I'm encouraging you to do so.

Let's try this: go here and then tell me why the 440M number is bullshit or provide the numbers and sources for your accurate 1:1 comparison.

have you seen an emaciated body with a bloated stomach in america? if so, please show me it.

Read the fucking NLM paper YOU linked! Otherwise fuck you and your poverty porn, but here you go.

Also the "bloated stomach" you seem fixated on is a very specific symptom. It's could be severe gastroparesis or ascites but based on the links you've provided I'm willing to bet you are envisioning kwashiorkor which is a very specific kind of malnutrition that the racists of Facebook love to use for poverty porn. Feel free to "show me otherwise".

this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2026
552 points (99.1% liked)

Political Memes

12315 readers
1055 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

1) Be civilJokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

2) No misinformationDon’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

3) Posts should be memesRandom pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

4) No bots, spam or self-promotionFollow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

5) No AI generated content.Content posted must not be created by AI with the intent to mimic the style of existing images

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS