All of these guys tend to be younger, it seems to be a new trend cause we didn't have issues like this 10 years ago. They'll come in, talk only to other gay guys, and exclude women (incl trans women) from all conversations to the point it becomes very awkward. This has happened 3 times in the past 2 years or so. We had an event recently and we had a handful of trans people show up. I tried to talk to everyone to just say hi (I'm the organizer after all) and the guy just stared at me?? Then one of the sweetest trans ladies there talked to me about how she was trying to get contact details for people so we could, y'know, be a community, and the guy apparently told her that all of his chats and local groups for trans men were men only and that they had so many issues with trans women trying to make LGBT spaces all about them so they only let trans men in. She was just looking for people to hang out with! The lack of solidarity here was shocking to me.

Maybe it's some social media thing? Over compensation? Idfk. Shits getting weird.

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[+] 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (10 children)
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    I would feel flat-out attacked in my womanhood.

    Honestly every time someone trots out this whole, trans men are super different from cis men thing I do feel that way.

    even if you use it to craft free transmisogyny passes for trans men.

    Incredible thing for someone who is TME to do btw

    Also thank you for popping up in this thread I hoped you would.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    you are one of the only people I see getting away with attacking trans people on this site, Im transfemme and I don't think Athena5898 is attacking me

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago*

    Im transfemme and I don't think Athena5898 is attacking me

    What odd wording when what Serial (and I) feel attacked by is specifically the stuff about our binary identities as women. Usually I associate transfemme with NBs.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    cw csaI find myself struggling within this discussion. I’m transmasc and mostly identify as a man, and I largely agree with you. What I’m unsure about is where to situate trans men within the patriarchal system.

    For me, the analysis that looks solely at present gender identity is not sufficient. Because life experience as a child has a large impact on a person as adult. Most trans men carry a trauma with them from being victim of sexualisation as a child. This experience is not exclusive to people who grew up being perceived as a girl, but patriarchy makes it systemic form of oppression towards children who are perceived as girls.

    When I read “trans men should not be treated as cis men” I want to agree because burden I carry with me because of my childhood trauma’s is caused by misogyny. That experience makes me feel, in some moments, more connected to women than cis men. But at the same time I agree with you that trans men are not somehow unaffected by patriarchy, and often will contribute to the oppression of women.

    This dynamic makes me feel conflicted all the time, because I know I have to make space for women in trans spaces, to fight against the patriarchal system. But at the same time I am in need of space to process my own childhood trauma’s which have experienced as unwelcome in trans spaces.

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  • [+] 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago

    Thank you for your response. I definitely did not intend to imply that trans women do not experience misogyny before transitioning, or that they have a “male” childhood/socialisation. Although I understand how my words could have suggested that. I fully acknowledge that childhood for most trans people is traumatic, because you are expected to be or are treated as someone you’re not. And I also fully acknowledge that trans women and enbies can experience the same type of sexualisation that cis women experience when they are children. Feminine cis men probably experience it too. And just to be clear, I am not comparing the experience of feminine men to that of trans women here, these experiences are probably different. Just as how my experiences with sexualisation and assault are different from that of cis and trans women.

    When I wrote that I feel like my childhood traumas connect me to women more than cis men in some moments, I intently did not write cis women, because I feel this connection to trans women as well. Which I suppose is partly why it hurt to feel like my experience was unwelcome in some female dominated trans communities. Your reply did make me understand better where the unwelcomeness could have come from though. I can be more careful about the words I choose to describe it.

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