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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by kristina@hexbear.net to c/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns@hexbear.net

All of these guys tend to be younger, it seems to be a new trend cause we didn't have issues like this 10 years ago. They'll come in, talk only to other gay guys, and exclude women (incl trans women) from all conversations to the point it becomes very awkward. This has happened 3 times in the past 2 years or so. We had an event recently and we had a handful of trans people show up. I tried to talk to everyone to just say hi (I'm the organizer after all) and the guy just stared at me?? Then one of the sweetest trans ladies there talked to me about how she was trying to get contact details for people so we could, y'know, be a community, and the guy apparently told her that all of his chats and local groups for trans men were men only and that they had so many issues with trans women trying to make LGBT spaces all about them so they only let trans men in. She was just looking for people to hang out with! The lack of solidarity here was shocking to me.

Maybe it's some social media thing? Over compensation? Idfk. Shits getting weird.

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[-] SerialExperimentsGay@hexbear.net 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

conflated trans men with cis men

These trans guys are NOT CIS MEN.

Any trans person who treats the other trans identities as a cis person is a problem.

If you would similarly insist that i am "not a cis woman" over and over again and openly advocate for not treating me like a cis woman, i would feel flat-out attacked in my womanhood. Trans and cis aren't genders, they are relationships between our assigned gender and our actual gender identity. Man and woman, however, are genders. Trans men are men, trans women are women, there is zero to discuss about that. Treating binary trans identities as special third genders that must be handled differently than their cis counterparts is flat-out transphobic, even if you use it to craft free transmisogyny passes for trans men. Stop telling other trans people what our genders are.

Edit: Oh wait, i missed the transmisogyny classic:

As long as we cling to gender binaries, this issue is going to get worse, and we are going to be right back where we started from.

You are implying i am flat-out problematic for being a woman and hide it as a critique of the gender binary. You hardcore misogynist. Work through your internalized transphobia ASAP. This is a fucking disgrace.

There is this idea that trans men are coming after trans women

These are literally trans men coming after trans women and you are making up excuses for them.

[-] Salah@hexbear.net 10 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

cw csaI find myself struggling within this discussion. I’m transmasc and mostly identify as a man, and I largely agree with you. What I’m unsure about is where to situate trans men within the patriarchal system.

For me, the analysis that looks solely at present gender identity is not sufficient. Because life experience as a child has a large impact on a person as adult. Most trans men carry a trauma with them from being victim of sexualisation as a child. This experience is not exclusive to people who grew up being perceived as a girl, but patriarchy makes it systemic form of oppression towards children who are perceived as girls.

When I read “trans men should not be treated as cis men” I want to agree because burden I carry with me because of my childhood trauma’s is caused by misogyny. That experience makes me feel, in some moments, more connected to women than cis men. But at the same time I agree with you that trans men are not somehow unaffected by patriarchy, and often will contribute to the oppression of women.

This dynamic makes me feel conflicted all the time, because I know I have to make space for women in trans spaces, to fight against the patriarchal system. But at the same time I am in need of space to process my own childhood trauma’s which have experienced as unwelcome in trans spaces.

[-] SerialExperimentsGay@hexbear.net 7 points 10 hours ago

ok this became some severe trauma dumping, CWs: CSA, bullying, suicide, police violence, transphobiaFirst of all, i need to preface this with a rule my friend group has. We do not compare trauma. We have this rule because all of us have been hurt and many of us have a subconscious tendency to minimize our own trauma because "others had it worse". I do not write any of the following to one up you or anybody else reading this, as i have no idea what you have been put through. I write it to offer my perspective and shed a light on my childhood as a trans girl, and the childhoods of trans girls close and dear to me. And i cannot speak about the childhood of trans men and transmasculine nonbinary people. So i won't, and stick to my side of the story.

With that out of the way, i feel you on this. I'm a CSA survivor as well, like a lot of my transfem friends. My childhood wasn't that of a boy. I did not have a different gender identity as a child. I constantly failed to perform masculinity in the way my classmates did. My voice was too high, i cried too easily, i was too soft, i could not play ball and i failed to be a proper misogynist and homophobe. And i was punished for this mercilessly and without end. I was beaten black and blue, i was bloodied, i was attacked so hard i ended up in the hospital one time, and i was also subjected to sexualized violence by several different classmates.

I did not grow up with the privilege cis boys get. I was a girl that boys were allowed to hit and the only way out was to repress my gender identity, go through the wrong puberty, fail in relationships, fail to take the offer of joining the men's networks at work, and worse than any of this it made me deny myself, made me incapable to accept who i am and i lost decades not transitioning. Before i lived as a woman, i did not live as a man or a boy. I didn't live at all. I was a ghost, a shadow of a person, an assemblage of different masks that i switched between depending on which group i was in, always fake, always fragmentary, never whole, never a full person.

And that experience isn't universal among trans women in all of its aspects, but out of dozens, maybe over a hundred trans women i know irl, i do not know a single one whose childhood was that of a normal, happy boy. Not one. Each and every one of us was the most brutally bullied kid in her class at some point. A substantial number still have the exit plan they made during that time present in their mind. Some say they find comfort in the knowledge they could die at any time. When i say that we do not start being subjected to transmisogyny when we come out, i fully mean it. We have been hurt for who we are before anybody understood what that meant. We do not fit into patriarchy. Maybe you don't either, i can't speak for you. But i'm saying that trans people break the patriarchal modus operandi harder than anybody else and that we may not grasp the full extend of that by comparing ourselves to cis people of the same assigned gender. I cannot make sense of my life if i compare childhood me only to men instead of other women.

Sooooo. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that when you make a claim that you had a childhood that still connects you to womanhood through shared trauma, this inversely implies i had a male socialization. You said that at no point and i will not put words in your mouth. In fact, i think that it's a constant among queer kids of all genders to be punished for our queerness before we even realize we are queer. And that in spite of that being different and unique between trans and cis people, between gays and lesbians, between trans men and trans women, between binary and nonbinary people, we share a common ground of being outsiders to the patriarchal system.

But i need to point to a decades-long and ongoing history of lesbian and feminist spaces excluding trans women and including trans men, not just nonbinary transmasc butches, but binary heterosexual trans men, while excluding us from these spaces in the most viciously misgendering ways possible. Once more, i am not pointing to that to say you are participating in it. I am saying that this history is pervasive in queer spaces that are largely comprised of cis women and transmasculine people, and that a lot of trans women are very painfully aware of this. Often because of direct lived experience, or because they have several close friends who have gone through that. Among many other examples, i have a friend who got told as a freshly outed 17 year old transfem, by a transmasculine person who was almost a decade older, that she had to put herself out on the frontlines at a protest in a city with the most violent cops in the country (which ended with her being subjected to traumatizing police violence and several days of being arrested and further traumatized) and later informed her that because of male socialization, she could obviously never be allowed in AFAB Only spaces and could not be trusted in the same way female socialized trans people were. Because she just lacked that connection to womanhood. Sometimes transmisogyny likes to wear the hyperwoke costume, but it still stays rancid terf shit.

And when you come into a space with all the baggage of having grown up as a trans girl, and a random trans man you do not know claims that he is connected to womanhood because of his childhood trauma, this history of brutal exclusion means that a lot of trans women will take that as an invalidation of their own trauma, their gender identity, their right to be in lesbian spaces, their right to have any safe space at all that is not exclusively for transfeminized people.

Once more, i did not take your comment to say any of that, but i know how comments like that often come across, especially if there is less context than in your case. This is why transbian seperatism is a thing, this is why i cringe at the idea of ever dating a cis woman again, this is why i reserve all my love and kindness for other transfeminized people. Because nobody else loves us. People say they do, but you cannot love what you don't understand and other trans women are the only people that truly get me. They are the only ones i can look at these scars with safely, the only people i can truly open up and be seen as myself with. I would not have been able to write this text out if it wasn't for the constant love and support of my best friend, the girl who is closer to my heart than anybody else has ever been. But even that is seen as offensive by misogynist trans men, who will throw a tantrum when trans women assert their boundaries and say they want to center other trans women in their lifes.

[-] Salah@hexbear.net 3 points 5 hours ago

Thank you for your response. I definitely did not intend to imply that trans women do not experience misogyny before transitioning, or that they have a “male” childhood/socialisation. Although I understand how my words could have suggested that. I fully acknowledge that childhood for most trans people is traumatic, because you are expected to be or are treated as someone you’re not. And I also fully acknowledge that trans women and enbies can experience the same type of sexualisation that cis women experience when they are children. Feminine cis men probably experience it too. And just to be clear, I am not comparing the experience of feminine men to that of trans women here, these experiences are probably different. Just as how my experiences with sexualisation and assault are different from that of cis and trans women.

When I wrote that I feel like my childhood traumas connect me to women more than cis men in some moments, I intently did not write cis women, because I feel this connection to trans women as well. Which I suppose is partly why it hurt to feel like my experience was unwelcome in some female dominated trans communities. Your reply did make me understand better where the unwelcomeness could have come from though. I can be more careful about the words I choose to describe it.

[-] upmysleeves@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago

you are one of the only people I see getting away with attacking trans people on this site, Im transfemme and I don't think Athena5898 is attacking me

[-] SerialExperimentsGay@hexbear.net 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

They are outright saying that trans people should not be treated like cis people of the same gender. How much more open does the internalized transphobia have to be so you get it?

[-] upmysleeves@hexbear.net 11 points 1 day ago

Noted. I'd rather not go down this road with you, so good luck with whatever this is

[-] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Im transfemme and I don't think Athena5898 is attacking me

What odd wording when what Serial (and I) feel attacked by is specifically the stuff about our binary identities as women. Usually I associate transfemme with NBs.

[-] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I would feel flat-out attacked in my womanhood.

Honestly every time someone trots out this whole, trans men are super different from cis men thing I do feel that way.

even if you use it to craft free transmisogyny passes for trans men.

Incredible thing for someone who is TME to do btw

Also thank you for popping up in this thread I hoped you would.

Thanks, this is literally the kind of shit Julia Serrano described in Whipping Girl and half of hexbears' trans userbase called her exorsexist for pointing out that other gender variant people can also be transmisogynist. I feel physically ill after working through that post.

this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2026
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