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I wish Chomsky wasn't so fucking campist that he can regularly be counted on to play genocide apologist if it's "anti-West" (lemmy.world)

submitted 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1738&context=gsp

This does not cover his current apologia for Russia's genocide in Ukraine.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Ironic that the author of this paper views Oct 7th as Hamas committing genocide, but only views Israel as potentially trying to commit genocide.

"I believe that the events of Oct. 7 qualify as a genocidal massacre of Israelis. I also think that the Israeli response, and indeed long standing Israeli policy towards the Gazan population, evinces elements of genocidal thinking and increasingly practice," he said.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

“Any early hesitation I had about applying the ‘genocide’ label to the Israeli attack on Gaza has dissipated over the past year of human slaughter and the obliteration of homes, infrastructure, and communities,” said Adam Jones, a professor of political science at the University of British Columbia who has written a textbook on genocide. “There is plenty of this demonization and dehumanization on the other side as well, but whatever peace constituency existed in Israel seems to have vanished, and there is a growing consensus for genocidal war, mass population transfer, and long-term eradication of Palestinian culture and identity.”

EDIT: As noted further down, he doesn't say Hamas committed genocide and Israel didn't - he uses a specific academic term of genocidal massacre, and explicitly notes that he is not saying that Hamas committed genocide, because 'genocidal massacre' and 'genocide' are different terms in the academic context.

The same hurdle of proving intentionality applies to any evaluation of whether Hamas’s October 7 attack constitutes genocide. Hamas, which governs Gaza and is designated by many countries as a terrorist organization, promises the destruction of Israel in its founding charter and has said it has plans for more attacks like the one on October 7. Its “wild and indiscriminate killing” of more than 1,400 people is characteristic of what social scientists refer to as a “genocidal massacre” that should be “acknowledged and condemned as such,” but the intentionality requirement under the law is still a “high evidentiary bar to reach,” Jones said.

Beyond killing civilians en masse, Israel appears to be inflicting “conditions of life calculated to bring about [the targeted group’s] physical destruction,” as prohibited by the convention, said Adam Jones, a professor of political science at the University of British Columbia who has written a textbook on genocide. He pointed to Israel’s decisions to let in only limited humanitarian assistance that is far from sufficient to provide for the needs of 2.2 million people; to cut off fuel, water, and electricity; and to deprive people of adequate access to medical care. As of November 5, some 370 aid trucks had reportedly arrived in Gaza since they were first allowed to enter on October 21, but more than 100 trucks daily would be required to meet the needs of the population.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

That's great that he finally got there, but it took him over a year to recognize a very obvious genocide. I can't take this prof. as any source worth listening to on the matter if they're that inept.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

That’s great that he finally got there, but it took him over a year to recognize a very obvious genocide.

"I can't believe someone who notes that the definition of genocide is, by international law, intentionally restrictive would, two months into a military campaign with conflicting narratives and information blanketing the space, note only that there were genocidal intentions and practice instead of outright calling it genocide. This is an unbelievable betrayal 😔"

I can’t take this prof. as any source worth listening to on the matter if they’re that inept.

Yet Chomsky is great on the subject, despite his long history of genocide denial, apologism, and handwaving. Lovely.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

You can call something genocide without having to give a shit what 'international law' calls it. It was plain as chips for all of us to see so early on, how did an expert fail if not intentionally.

And fuck Chomsky, I never said he was great only that the author themselves are also guilty of politicising genocide.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Oh, I made a mistake - the article you quoted from is, itself, quoting another article - that was written only a month after the attacks.

The same hurdle of proving intentionality applies to any evaluation of whether Hamas’s October 7 attack constitutes genocide. Hamas, which governs Gaza and is designated by many countries as a terrorist organization, promises the destruction of Israel in its founding charter and has said it has plans for more attacks like the one on October 7. Its “wild and indiscriminate killing” of more than 1,400 people is characteristic of what social scientists refer to as a “genocidal massacre” that should be “acknowledged and condemned as such,” but the intentionality requirement under the law is still a “high evidentiary bar to reach,” Jones said.

Beyond killing civilians en masse, Israel appears to be inflicting “conditions of life calculated to bring about [the targeted group’s] physical destruction,” as prohibited by the convention, said Adam Jones, a professor of political science at the University of British Columbia who has written a textbook on genocide. He pointed to Israel’s decisions to let in only limited humanitarian assistance that is far from sufficient to provide for the needs of 2.2 million people; to cut off fuel, water, and electricity; and to deprive people of adequate access to medical care. As of November 5, some 370 aid trucks had reportedly arrived in Gaza since they were first allowed to enter on October 21, but more than 100 trucks daily would be required to meet the needs of the population.

You can call something genocide without having to give a shit what ‘international law’ calls it.

The man is literally a professor of genocide studies; when a news org asks him if something is genocide, he's not just some rando tossing out an opinion. He's giving an academic answer.

It was plain as chips for all of us to see so early on, how did an expert fail if not intentionally.

Jesus Christ.

And fuck Chomsky, I never said he was great only that the author themselves are also guilty of politicising genocide.

"Politicizing genocide"

“I can’t believe someone who notes that the definition of genocide is, by international law, intentionally restrictive would, one month into a military campaign with conflicting narratives and information blanketing the space, note only that there were genocidal intentions and practice instead of outright calling it genocide. This is an unbelievable betrayal 😔”

What, did you immediately run to google the author's name in the hopes of digging up dirt, and then threw shit at the wall to see what would stick? lmao.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks for that quote. Further highlights how problematic this professor is.

Under the law he calls it’s a high bar to reach to label Oct 7th as genocidal, yet he had no problem doing so a month later?

It’s selective application of when to follow legal precedent and when he can apply his own personal interpretation. One that he refused to use to call genocide genocide until far too late.

Well I didn’t need to go and Google Chomsky did I? He’s a known figure, this author was not.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 20 hours ago

Thanks for that quote. Further highlights how problematic this professor is.

Under the law he calls it’s a high bar to reach to label Oct 7th as genocidal, yet he had no problem doing so a month later?

No, that article from a month later is quoting this one. He didn't say Oct 7th was genocide. That's what you are desperately reading into it in order to... I don't even really know why. Refuse to admit to being wrong, I guess?

It’s selective application of when to follow legal precedent and when he can apply his own personal interpretation. One that he refused to use to call genocide genocide until far too late.

Fucking what.

Well I didn’t need to go and Google Chomsky did I? He’s a known figure, this author was not.

Maybe you should've spent a few more minutes googling, considering that your accusation was so easily and quickly disproven.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 19 hours ago

Always someone else’s wrong doing, in the land of brave, isn’t it ? Never america, defenders of freedom?

Yet here you are, Making political memes with no more than a child’s knowledge of the world.

I’ll leave you to your shallow water.