this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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Finland not included?
Let me tell you the recipe for the Finnish national dish: Karelian stew.
Cubes of meat. Beef, pork, lamb. Put them in water. Add salt, (but like less than you'd actually need.)
Chuck it in the oven for hours.
Done.
No pepper. No vegetables. Nothing. Cubes of meat and salt.
God I hate Finland. There's great parts and definitely easymode compared to a lot of places, but there's problems as well. A lot, actually. Just very different.
Karelian stew is simple peasant food, easy to make but fulfilling. It's that but also delicious. It's not supposed to go toe-to-toe with the whole culinary world.
"Delicious"?
My fucking god.
I'd like to see Gordon Ramsay reacting to people saying that cubes of meat in lightly salted water are "delicious."
The self-deluding is insane.
I mean, there are modern versions which actually add spices and vegetables, and then it is good, but that isn't "traditional" per se.
I mean I like the taste of meat so I really like it
Just... plain, unpeppered meat?
Whatever floats your goat, man.
Good meat doesn't need anything else than salt imo. But usually Karelian stew has pepper and other stuff in it too.
Traditional Karelian Stew only says salt in the recipe, though.
Some do, some don't. It's not a set in stone thing afaik. Some old recipes are simpler than others. These days mostly always it's more than just meat(s), water, salt.
But like... you definitely see my point here.
Our national dish is boiled, lightly salted meat.
That's shit.
When have you ever heard of anyone discussing "Finnish cuisine"? When have you ever heard of there being a Finnish restaurant somewhere outside of Finland? I'm sure a couple exist, but most are probably "Nordic" and I'll genuinely be surprised if you find one that's a "traditional Finnish food" restaurant in another country.
I mean it's peasant food. Simple, fulfilling and imo pretty good for what it is. Karelian stew being a good example, though I've never actually had it as plain as you described.
Traditional Finnish cuisine isn't anything fancy but it's not really supposed to be either. And I don't mind, I like it.
There's a ton of peasant food from other cultures which is still amazing.
And like I bet with myself, you can't find such s restaurant.
I just disagree there really being any Finnish cuisine. Boiled meat and potatoes does not a cuisine make.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_cuisine
Wow a Wikilink. You sure destroyed all my arguments.
It wasn't meant to change your opinions but to show that "Finnish cuisine" as a thing does exist.
No.
An article about Finnish cuisine exists. Because as a concept, we can talk about it.
But in the sense of there being restaurants for it, like Italian, Mexican, Greek, Indian, Chinese, etc cuisines, I would bet quite a lot that you can't find one single restaurant dedicated to "Finnish cuisine" outside of Finland.
That's what I was saying, the concept exists even if it's not popular or good enough to warrant existing in your opinion.
The concept of say unicorns having sex existing doesn't mean there are any unicorns anywhere having sex.
There are no Finnish restaurants.
In that sense, there is no "Finnish cuisine".
It's just that that's not how cuisine is usually understood. But like I said, I wasn't trying to change your opinion, just noted that as usually defined it does exist.
It definitely is, though.
You're just refusing to use the colloquially definition, because you're Finnish and Finnish dishes technically exist.
I don't know if you think the colloquial use aligns more with what you said, but in Finnish cuisine is just "keittiö" (as in suomalainen keittiö) or ruokakulttuuri. English word is much the same in that it actually doesn't just mean something fancy, even though as a French origin word it can seem like a fancy word.
I'm just going with that. It's not a personal preference thing. I like Finnish food but it doesn't really matter to me if the term cuisine was reserved for just fancy. I was just saying.
It's not about fanciness.
It's about the concept of a "cuisine". I'm sure you understand what is meant by it.
I don't believe there are any "Finnish restaurants". There are restaurants which say they serve traditional food, in Finland, sure. But I'm quite sure no other country has a "Finnish restaurant" and that literally no-one ever has asked their friend "hey d'you wanna go out for some Finnish?"
You can like the food, I'm not trying to make you enjoy something less. I'm pointing out Finland lacks food culture, as sorely as it lacks other forms of culture.
No I understand, I'm just saying how you define it doesn't really follow how it is commonly defined. Which is fine, but again, something to keep in mind.
There are. Search for "suomalainen ravintola".
Those exist too. Mostly to serve expatriates, but still.
Well that's an opinion you are sharing. And it's fine to think so, it's just not generally seen as true. Food culture is just what people are eating in certain areas and the traditional dishes associated with it. So of course Finland would have a food culture. You are defining it as something else, so by the way you are defining it it might be true.
I think the whole thing could be summed as you feeling that Finnish cuisine isn't good or popular enough to warrant the term. It's an opinion I've heard before, so I get it and I'm not arguing against it. I'm just saying on more objective way, the way the terms are defined, Finnish cuisine and food culture does exist. Doesn't mean you are wrong but I just simply wanted to note that to make up "cuisine" there's no high bar.
I hope that helps to settle this.
Sorry about the other comment, I'm taking personal shit out on you, for which I apologise.
I do still stand behind the ideas of what I said, but I could've been much more polite about it.
I mean, Finnish cuisine is a thing, but... it's not a thing. And you probably very well know what I mean with that.
It's not on par with world class cuisines, definitely.
I would say it's non-existent.
I genuinely tried searching for Finnish restaurants in other countries once. All I remember finding was "Nordic cuisine", which makes a bit more sense.
Like you wouldn't have enough dishes for a menu if it was just Finnish cuisine.
Karelian stew and mämmi. Crispbread to go with them. That's it.
"Nordic cuisine" is probably used because it provides better name recognition too, in addition to a wider selection.
It's much more than that. https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomalainen_keitti%C3%B6 But a lot of those aren't internationally known or specifically associated with Finland so it doesn't make it worth it to run a specifically Finnish cuisine focused restaurant.
It's not me defining it.
Oh you dipshit, that just means a restaurant that's in Finland. You can have a "suomalainen kiinalainen ravintola".
Traditional Finnish food as a cuisine isn't a thing because of how shit it is and you not being able to accept that is ihan vitun naurettavaa nationalismipaskaa.
It's not, it's a fact.
You're just deluding yourself because you wholly lack the capacity to ever criticise Finland or Finns in any capacity.
Don't think I don't remember you doubting my story of the police abusing me, of which I have proof. You're literally brainwashed so badly you can't even admit that undersalted unspiced boiled meat is a shit "dish".
I'd like to see you try making any of these points to someone like Gordon Ramsay. Actually you remind me of the people on his shows. You know the type, the ones who insist they make the greatest food in the world while Gordon can barely stomach it. And then it's the same "well it's your opinion" and even "he doesn't know anything about food".
Like literally all karelian stew recipes actually call for spices and carrots for instance, unless you search for a "traditional" one.
Why is it so hard to accept that some dishes are shit?
I hope that helps.
Nope.
Often when you specify "suomalainen" it correctly interprets the results as you seeking for Finnish or Finnish influenced food. Test it out yourself.
I get that you don't much care for Finnish cuisine but it doesn't mean such a thing doesn't exist. How fancy or popular or varied or even good it is is an another matter. And it's not what I'm arguing about. This isn't an emotional or opinion thing to me, I'm just saying the concept of cuisine doesn't really work how you are defining it. It's not even about it being Finnish, it'd be the same for Icelandic or Russian or Greek or any other cuisine.
Huh?
I'm like 90% sure you definitely replied to me in a thread that I talked about being abused by the police, with the general suspicion of "our police don't do that" which all Finns have. Even I had it, until I got abused like that.
I'm not the one defining the concept.
Boiled meat is not unique. I would argue we don't have enough food culture for it to constitute "a cuisine". And that's sort of backed up by there being no international restaurants serving mainly Finnish cuisine.
I mean could be, I don't remember. Just seemed like a weird thing to throw out there.
That is you trying to define it. Your own article links to "List of European cuisines" and that includes and links to "Finnish cuisine". If you were trying to define cuisine through truly unique foods or preparation techniques etc, not only would you drive yourself insane but you'd also find out you wouldn't have many cuisines left.
What makes you feel like pepper is such an incredible and necessary ingredient?
If the meat is good, it'll be good with or without pepper.
Overall I feel like boiling is in general ignorantly ridiculed far too much by modern cooking culture, especially famous restaurant chefs. Stews are usually easily better than the average "home chef's" steak attempt #62.
It's no the lack of pepper. It's the lack of everything.
What makes you think boiled undersalted meat cubes are a meal?
Boiled meat is good.
Plain, boiled meat?
I can't tell you what you enjoy or don't.. but that's not a very refined palate, imo.
Edit wait I just realised the sub I'm in. Explains it a bit
A "refined palate" isn't a beneficial or good trait.
Being unable to stomach a good raw ingredient after a basic cooking process doesn't make you better.
A demanding palate is a special need.
A special need mostly only nobles historically were able to meet.
We're talking about food culture, not sustenance.
I dunno, long-drink is a pretty solid beverage. Cheaper in Estonia tho.
There are good things, yeah.
But lately, for me, the problems have become too much to bear living here.
The emotional coldness is not exaggerated.