this post was submitted on 30 May 2024
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Due to the wide range of possible human development, I'm sure there are some people who are actually incapable of being rehabilitated. I don't think that's typical, and I think rehabilitation should be the preferred option.
Yeah the solution isn't no prisons, the solution is better prisons that focus on making folks ready for society again. When that's not at all possible then lifetime in good living conditions is fine, maybe these facilities are more medically oriented than straight up prisons. Nordic countries are once again showing the way there.
Then they shouldn't call it "prison abolition". Leftists are horrible at naming stuff. "Reform prisons? No, let's headline that we want to abolish them. Reform police? No, let's say we should stop funding them and also make an acronym saying every individual cop is a bastard, which would basically turn anyone who has had a good experience with someone in the police against our movement"
the person you're responding to isn't a prison abolitionist if they dont say there should be no prisons.
IIRC, anarchists typically want to actually abolish police departments and replace them with a novel method of security called community defense.
it's not novel. it's what communities have done since the beginning of time.
This is a fair point, but in our atomized society systems that require large amounts of interconnectivity to function are novel. Novelty isn't really a function of history so much as familiarity.
YSK, anarchists don't want to "replace" police with community defense - they propose we actually acquire community protection while doing away with an institution whose job is to threaten our community.
I'm not sure I understand the distinction.
Anarchists don't want to replace a group of institutionalized and unaccountable thugs that threatens the community with anything because communities never needed a group of institutionalized and unaccountable thugs whose sole purpose is to threaten communities. So no replacement is required - what they want is the addition of community defense because that is something our communities have never had.
In fact, the first order of business for any form of community defense in our society is to protect the community from said group of institutionalized and unaccountable thugs.
Does that make it easier to understand?
Did you actually downvote me for saying that I wasn't sure what you meant by what you said, or was that someone else?
Lol!
No... that wasn't me. I have a gang of angry liberals following me around and downvoting everything I say - if you're not appropriately hostile towards me, you get a downvote, too.
To me, "prison abolition" sounds fine, since the new type of detention facilities would have very little in common with traditional prisons, the point of which is, mainly, punishment.
Leftists are horrible at naming stuff only because rightists deliberately misinterpret whatever they come up with. And then the rightist propaganda network parrots that fiction over and over and over.
yes, it is. imagine this with any other abolished human atrocity of our past.
locking people in cages is wrong.
i haven't read the reductress article, but here's my take as a prison abolitionist: abolish prisons. there are a thousand other people who got railroaded worse and are getting stiffer sentences in worse prisons than trump will ever know. the slogan "none of us is free until all of us are free" has a new inverse "don't let trump free until all of us are free". this is absolutely abolitionist while avoiding being a special pleader for trump, and will likely have the same practical result if the maxim is followed: prisons are unlikely to be abolished, so he would be eually unlikely to escape it.
Alright but how do you plan to deal with murderers and rapists?
murderers and rapists exist now. prisons don't fix that. in many ways they make the problem worse.
"It's already happening so just let it happen." That sounds like it will enable serial murderers and rapists to wander around murdering and raping as they please.
this is a strawman
this already happens
"So just ignore it and let them continue." I understand your position, no need to elaborate further.
no one said that.
Instead of saying "they're already doing it," you are free at any time to explain how to prevent known rapists and murderers from continuing to rape and murder. That's literally what I asked in the first place. You don't have an answer at all, just, "they're already doing it anyway."
prisons are renowned for being dens of rape and murder. the prisons don't fix the problem they make it worse. i don't need an alternative to know what isn't working and what to do about it.
Understood. Where most people would focus on stopping rape and murder inside the prison, you would rather have the rapists and murderers out and free to rape and murder as they please. Justified as, "rapes and murders are already happening, so just let them happen."
this is a strawman. i want no rape and murder. prison makes rape and murder worse.
It's an exact description of your philosophy.
no, it's not.
I agree. But for people that can't be rehabilitated, the "prison" should still provide them with a decent life. Not luxurious, but comfortable enough that thy can still be happy in an isolated environment.
Happy probably isn't the right word but then again neither is really I think any word that exists in the English language, I don't think we have a word that encapsulates the mere lacking of pain and suffering without any positive feeling in its place.
Nah, I'll stick with happy. As long as they can't harm others, even absolute dickwads should he allowed to be happy. Within reasonable limits in terms of cost to society in order to make it happen, of course.
Content? Not quite right but closer, maybe?
That's the word I use with my therapist, so I think it works.