[–] 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There's a lot to unpack here. For the sake of convenience, I'm going to assume that what Luminous said was a legitimate call for violence and was therefore not complying with the Lemmy.world code of conduct.

If we assume that, then the Lemmy.world terms say that they can:

  • remove the content and ask a user not to do it again, and/or,
  • (if it's a second time) suspend the account temporarily, and/or,
  • restrict or banish the community, and/or,
  • remove all of that user's content, and/or,
  • permanently ban the user.

I have no idea how many of those had already happened, I'm going to assume for convenience again that some of it did. The site bylaws also say that for community bans and content removal:

  • Bans "should only be used as a last resort for hostile users OR for users that are known bad faith actors."
  • "Any community user ban CAN and SHOULD have a clearly documented reason pointing to explicit rules broken."
  • "any content that they DO remove, they should ideally be able to cite the community rules that were broken."

I note that all of Luminous' content was removed, and while the "Our Rights" section says this can happen, it somewhat contrasts with the guidelines for documenting content removal. But there's still nothing in any of this that suggests defederating from the entire instance is warranted or an appropriate course of action. If community bans are considered a last resort, then it seems logical that defederating has at the bare minimum the same threshold of seriousness.

Let's assume for convenience again that the comments from one admin can be sufficient cause for defederation, and its absence from the ToS is an oversight. If that's the case, then the bylaws and prior defederation examples (eg. lemmygrad) suggest that this should be adequately explained. But that didn't happen, and it's not clear whether the other admins were involved in the decision.

Even if all of the above reactions to Luminous' comment were justified and proper, the actions afterwards by lemmy.world admins / mods don't inspire my confidence. I can see there has been:

  • This refederation announcement, only posted as a regular post (I found it yesterday by chance). It only briefly outlines the events leading up to this.
  • One user in this thread has been temporarily community banned for "Spam, harassment" after three removed posts in the thread, which doesn't seem like spam quantity. Two of those posts cite the reason "this isn't about jordanlund", yet further down in the thread, an admin is litigating the jordanlund situation. Other far more off topic content is in this thread, so if that is a concern, it's not clear why the other comments remain.
  • A few users have been permanently(?) banned from the instance with the reasons "troll" or "calling FHF members nazis". It's unclear whether the removed comments or user histories rose to the level of needing an instance ban.
  • Multiple other users have been temporarily banned from this community for reasons spanning from "uncivil" to "disinformation", to "sealioning and harassment". Many of the removed comments from those users did not seem to meet those descriptions either.
  • Many other removed comments from non-banned users, with varying levels of clear rules broken.
  • One moderator indicating the defederation mostly only targets several "loud" people and the instance size is only 165 people, which undercuts both the reasoning for why defederation was necessary and the justification for including 150 users as collateral (along with anyone who may have wanted to interact with them). Several people can be dealt with using individual bans, and that quantity are unlikely to be negatively impacting lemmy.world at scale.
  • No response from the only person further up the leadership ladder for whether / how Lemmy.world admin are evaluating the original decisions, governance process for defederation, or the bus factor and risks of one person being site admin and top moderator and infra simultaneously. Not even a "I'm alive and considering the issue" acknowledgement, unless done behind the cover of the lwadmin account.
  • Lots of little bits of engagement otherwise from Lemmy.world admin or mods with various tangents in the thread.

Very little here seems to align with the by laws and expectations for proportionate community moderator conduct.

The situation looks to me like it has been poorly handled, and there is no sign of any compromise or admission that any of the events that up to now could have been handled differently, or a process for how it might be handled in the future. I just don't see much in the way of community building or good will, but I do see the same patterns that have inspired other lemmy.world drama over the years.

If one admin's comments or actions aren't sufficient for justifying defederation, then it's unclear why dbzer0 is being considered for defederation at all. But, if one admin's comments or actions are sufficient justification, then the situation in this thread opens the door for other instances to defederate from Lemmy.world.

  • source
  • [–] 18 points 5 months ago

    I welcome the word "external", but with caution about how external or objective that is in reality. It wouldn't be the first external review that commissioned a sympathetic organization or one headed up by a family or friend.

  • source
  • [–] [S] 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    The Nazi symbol laws were one of the ones that came to mind. Strangely, that's not even consistent among European countries - Austria and Germany will strictly enforce swastika display (although they may provide exceptions for limited artistic and educational use?). But as far as I can tell, it's legal in Denmark, Italy and possibly Finland. I suspect that legal status would not be so clear if actively being used to promote hate, understandably.

    The laws of my region I'm largely familiar with, so I'm not too concerned about abiding by those. But I noticed many instances have in their Terms of Service or Code of Conduct that the user is responsible for ensuring their content complies with the instance's regional laws - that's what sparked my curiosity. Other instances like lemmy.world have an oddly unbounded position like "Do not post illegal content of any type", but I assume is implicitly scoped to their "governing laws" section which lists Netherlands, Germany and Finland - and I'm unsure which would take precedence if there were conflicting laws.

    Edit: Another part of the curiosity came from the recent stories about the US taking Reddit to court to compel turnover of information about the person who criticized ICE.

  • source
  • parent
  • context
  •  

    I was looking at the lists of instances and where they're hosted, weighing up migrating. Part of that was to figure out which servers might be best for connectivity issues with my region. But looking at the terms of service for some of the possibilities, I noticed that they often just say something like "This instance and your use is subject to the laws of ".

    But lots of countries have unusual laws I couldn't know about. Some of them might affect data privacy, some of them might affect what can be said or shown in pictures, some might be seemingly random to a foreigner. Some of the laws might be beneficial to random people, others won't.

    Obviously different instances decide how they choose to enforce their interpretations of those laws, rightly or questionably, but there's also the question of what happens if they receive a subpoena from their regional law enforcement.

    Just to be clear, I'm not trying to post anything that I think would be illegal in any country. But, for all I know, there's a law somewhere that says I have to spin around three times and then stand on one leg while writing any comment.

    So, what regional laws should a user know about before choosing an instance? Bonus points for the unusual ones that will take me down a Wikipedia rabbit hole. I offer you a non-digital unusual law in return: Since 1313 it's illegal to wear a suit of armour in the UK Houses of Parliament.

    [–] 5 points 5 months ago*

    There are, and the rules for each community (subreddit) differ, but there are also the instance (server) rules, so it can get a bit complex. The community rules are usually posted in the "sidebar" for that community, eg. https://lemmy.world/c/asklemmy, the instance rules you'll usually find in the "sidebar" for the servers home page, eg. https://lemmy.world/. you can tell what instance a community is in by the community name, if it doesn't have a "@" in it, it's on the same instance you are.

    Just have a quick look at both sets of rules before you post something and you're probably fine. Even if you get banned from one community or instance, there are likely similar communities and instances elsewhere you can go. The biggest difference will usually be how active they are. You can also set up your own community, and if you're tech oriented, your own instance.

  • source
  • parent
  • context
  • [–] 3 points 5 months ago

    They were the only neighbors I've ever had to do this with after many years of apartment living. I am fine with normal sounds, but their noise far exceeded normal constantly, and I have an expectation that shared living needs to come with a level of consideration for others. I know it wasn't just my problem either, there were multiple complaints made to the property managers by other apartments, to no effect.

    I chose this approach intentionally to avoid confrontation with obviously aggressive and unreasonable people. They had a reputation for regularly screaming obscenities at each other and anyone else who displeased them. Knowing the exact content of all their arguments, I knew that normal human interaction was likely to direct their aggressive behavior towards me, which would not achieve my goal of sleeping at night.

  • source
  • parent
  • context
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    The message was just "you can hear me" which I hoped would then logically translate to "therefore I can also hear you". The normal kinds of sound just didn't get the message across for some reason so I added the awkward element - it allowed for longer sound duration than briefly coughing or laughing, and made it more difficult to ignore. I'm pretty sure they thought I was just doing my thing.

    It's definitely a very oblique and passive aggressive approach to the problem, but it worked well enough that I didn't have to go for something more confrontational, which would have been the next step.

  • source
  • parent
  • context
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Interestingly India has lower vegetable consumption levels than you might think.

    Image description: line chart showing the average annual vegetable consumption per capita in kilograms for China, India, USA, UK, Italy, Mexico and Russia between 1961 and 2023. China has roughly 4 times the levels of the other countries. Mexico has the least, and India second least.

    Source: Vegetable consumption per capita, 1961 to 2023, for China, India, USA, UK, Italy, Mexico and Russia

  • source
  • [–] 21 points 5 months ago (8 children)

    I started making more noise after my neighbors clearly did not realize that the quiet they enjoyed from my apartment was out of deliberate consideration on my part, and not a mutual experience. I started with normal sounds like coughing or laughing or playing some music, but after that didn't work, I started to make noises they would be embarrassed to ask me about. It somewhat worked at reducing their noise levels. I knew they heard me because they stopped making eye contact. But they were also awful people so that was fine with me.

    Thankfully they moved and I now have a quiet neighbor who gets to enjoy my silence. Occasionally they'll get a little noise from me to remind them that the wall between my bedroom and their main room is very thin, but I haven't had to escalate it like with the last people, for which I am grateful. My other neighbors are a very quiet elderly couple and I love them, but our shared wall is substantially thicker, which is partly why I love them.

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago

    OP specifically mentioned smiting and wrath, which is often considered violent and destructive anger, so I interpreted the question to include acting based on emotion. If we assume that this is about the Abrahamic religions, we've got some examples to consider where God may not have acted proportionally or appropriately.

    That's where the paradox kicks in. Can God feel anger so strong he cannot control his actions? If God is omnipotent and therefore capable of acting appropriately despite emotions, or, because of omnipotence he is capable of not having those emotions at all, then why the carnage?

    One example could be the Noahic Covenant, where it was somehow necessary to kill all animals (except two of each species) because of disappointment in human wickedness. Another might be the Ten Plagues of Egypt and ensuing Deuteronomy Covenant where the punishment for one person's disobedience requires the punishment of others, including children, future wives and livestock. It doesn't seem at all clear why all the creeping things that creepeth upon the Earth had it coming, when omnipotence allows for simply fixing the problem.

  • source
  • parent
  • context
  •  

    Israeli military announces ‘largest coordinated strike’ against Hezbollah since war began, carrying out a wave of airstrikes without warning on Beirut and across the country on more than 100 targets.
    ...
    The attack came less than 12 hours after the Iran ceasefire announcement.
    ...
    Iran and Pakistan said a ceasefire would include Lebanon, contrary to Israeli claims, but the US has yet to comment.
    ...
    Up until the wave of airstrikes by Israel across Lebanon, Hezbollah had not announced any attacks against Israel – a first since the war between it and Israel began on 2 March.
    ...
    The almost five weeks of war in Lebanon has brought the country to its breaking point, with more than 1.1 million people forcibly displaced... More than 1,530 people had been killed and 4,812 wounded by Israeli airstrikes, Lebanon’s ministry of health said on Tuesday.

     

    Fake X account posing as his vet sparked global false reports of Jonathan’s death while soliciting crypto donations
    ...
    News outlets including the BBC, Daily Mail and USA Today falsely reported his death
    ...
    Nigel Phillips, the governor, was getting ready for bed on Wednesday night when he was inundated with anxious messages. He got up and searched the grounds to check on the tortoise. “Jonathan is asleep under a tree in the paddock,” he told the Guardian, adding that the animal was “very much alive”.

     

    The Israeli military has ordered the entire population of Beirut’s southern suburbs to evacuate, as it continued to bomb Lebanon and Iran, while Tehran launched retaliatory strikes against Israel and US bases across the region.

    An Israel Defense Forces spokesperson told all residents of Beirut’s southern suburbs – more than 500,000 people – to “save your lives and evacuate your homes immediately”, before Israel launched airstrikes on what he described as Hezbollah targets. The area covered by the order included several hospitals and government ministries.
    ...
    The evacuation order was issued just a day after the Israeli military ordered all residents to flee the area south of the Litani River, which compromises about 10% of the country.

    Emphasis mine. It's strange to me that very little of the conversation overall is about Lebanon, when Israel is pretty clearly invading it. Even most of this guardian report on the Beirut evacuation is about Iran.

    Update: Israeli military begins strikes on Beirut suburbs

     

    Image description: A paparazzi photo of former prince Andrew Mountbatten Windsor trying to lower himself in the car in an effort to hide from photographers, immediately after his release from police questioning. His face looks terrified. The image has been edited to add a crushed crown on his head. This crown is one of the damaged items recovered from the recent Louvre Heist, dropped by the thieves as they escaped. The text surrounding the photo reads: "How did they know I wasn't at Pizza Express".

    A paparazzi photo of former prince Andrew Mountbatten Windsor trying to lower himself in the car in an effort to hide from photographers, immediately after his release from police questioning. His face looks terrified. The image has been edited to add a crushed crown on his head. This crown is one of the damaged items recovered from the recent Louvre Heist, dropped by the thieves as they escaped. The text surrounding the photo reads: “How did they know I wasn’t at Pizza Express”.
    view more: next ›