this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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Blame it largely on the pandemic, which weakened the hold the workplace held on people’s psyches

By outward appearances, the labor market today looks much as it did before the pandemic. The unemployment rate is just as low, the share of adults in the labor force is just as high, and wages are growing at roughly the same pace after inflation.

But beneath the surface, the nature of labor has changed profoundly. Career and work aren’t nearly as central to the lives of Americans. They want more time for their families and themselves, and more flexibility about when, where and how they work.

The impact of this change can already be seen in both individual companies and the broader economy. It has led to a persistent shortage of workers, especially in jobs that seem less desirable because, for example, they require in-person work or fixed hours. That, in turn, has altered the bargaining position of employers and employees—forcing employers to adapt, not just by paying more but giving priority to quality of life in job offers.

To be sure, some of these changes arise from an exceptionally tight labor market. If unemployment rises, some of employees’ newfound leverage may evaporate.

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[–] [email protected] 164 points 8 months ago (4 children)
[–] [email protected] 91 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It's telling that the people who push this narrative are the people whose jobs pay the most money for the least amount of actual work.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 8 months ago

Yeah but they deserve it because they are the guilded class and also fuck you.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nobody should ever want to work, work should be the thing we work on minimising to maximise our living.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

Work to live, don't live to work.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago (4 children)

This comment offers such great perspective that I wish more people were aware of. The problem with the youngest generation is always there same. Maybe Gen Z will remember where the rest of us have forgotten, but historically the odds are long.

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[–] [email protected] 128 points 8 months ago (3 children)

They say blame the pandemic. I say blame the companies that bitch when people finally realize how important their time was.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Indeed. Death is approaching us all at a pretty respectable pace, so it's not really worth toiling your life away for next to nothing

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

People finally realized what is important and got a taste of life without constantly being overworked. Good for them. Most of modern work is totally ridiculous bullshit in the big scheme of things.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

I say blame the lack of enforcement of antitrust law for eroding the value of work.

[–] [email protected] 128 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The pandemic showed that a huge percentage of our work is literately bullshit used to keep us grinding away and not actually living life. And to keep us from dealing with the huge and glaring problems in our society.

The Puritan idea that we must slave away in order to be worthy is a lie.

One of the greatest economists, Keynes, expected us to be working 15-20 hours a week at this point because of productivity increases.

But instead of sharing in the blessing of productivity, we were forced to do an increasing amount of meaningless work and spend less time actually living, all while being shackled with debt rather than even increasing our pay.

A pretty garbage system if you ask me.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I work 9 hours a day either sitting at my desk doing nothing or sitting in meetings doing nothing. My only reprieve is that it pays decently well for the area I live in.

My time at my job could be cut in half and I'd still get just as much work done as before. So much of my life and and everyone else's lives are being wasted doing such meaningless work.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This is why I don't trust people who claim the jobs AI takes will be replaced, because that's how it was in the past. It wasn't, we never replaced those jobs, only created meaningless work. David Graeber is right.

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[–] [email protected] 111 points 8 months ago (10 children)

Other people in the comments are mentioning incentives, low pay, crappy management, etc. I don't want to work, but it's not really about any of this, or it's about all of this a little, sort of.

I want to do good work.

I want to make software that helps people, that does what it's supposed to do, that is fast, non-predatory, and doesn't succumb to endless feature creep or artificially rushed scheduling. Pay me enough to live comfortably, and I'll do this basically on my own. I don't even need all of these things.

I've found that most businesses prioritize between 0-1 of these things.

[–] [email protected] 62 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This is the real crux. Nowaday, I feel I can only do good through personal and community work. Professional work mostly involves being told to cut corners, mislead people and jack prices to grow the company infinitely.

While, frankly, I think infinite growth is one of the most damaging ideas in human history

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

I used to do IT for 'digital advertising in healthcare'. I helped fix those accursed screens that sell you shit while you wait at the doctor or hospital.

When I did my job well, it made the world worse.

This conflicts with my basic sense of humanity, y'all. It broke me, and it was like the 17th problem on my list of shit to worry about.

Capitalism offers to sell me lame drugs and garbage to fill the hole in my soul it's created.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

Yep, you said it best. Nowadays in tech your either:

Making something that preys on the little guy

Or

Make tools for already rich and powerful, which they will use to prey on the little guy lol.

That’s why lemmy is so special, it’s like (to me at least) the only place left were people believe software should benefit everyone to be good, especially the user.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

People want to meaningful contribute to their community. Work stops most of us from doing that but instead do something that pays

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[–] [email protected] 85 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Work is less valuable to us because it has literally become less valuable. We get much less in terms of real purchasing power.

You want me to care more about my job? Make it more valuable to me.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago

Also any job one might be passionate about pays the bare minimum it can, because not hating your job is basically a rare perk now.

Absolute bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 8 months ago

Loyalty is paid in cash, want me to be loyal, then pay me what I feel keeps me loyal.

[–] [email protected] 83 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Peter Gibbons: The thing is, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care.

Bob Porter: Don't... don't care?

Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime; so where's the motivation? And here's something else, Bob: I have eight different bosses right now.

Bob Slydell: I beg your pardon?

Peter Gibbons: Eight bosses.

Bob Slydell: Eight?

Peter Gibbons: Eight, Bob. So that means that when I make a mistake, I have eight different people coming by to tell me about it. That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired.

Plus ça change...

[–] [email protected] 32 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This movie has defined my working life.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The fact that nothing much has changed about this in 25 years is an indictment of both our economy and society.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (5 children)

Oh it’s definitely changed. For the worse.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago

Compared to an open office the cubicles in Office Space look amazing.

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[–] [email protected] 67 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Americans are being treated like shit by their bosses and are finally starting to realize that the fantasy of "anyone can be rich" they've been promised all their lives is a total sham. Of course they're not working as hard.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago

My read on this is we are readjusting the deal, seems like a good thing. Let's keep going. We don't need more rich people who never need to work while there are still people who must work their whole lives just to survive.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 8 months ago (1 children)

make a fourth of what made five years ago but same job

think part of why people work less now is because of no incentive

pay is way down, moral is low, and bills are higher than the income

recreational drugs are being outpriced for the first time in my lifetime by food costs

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Dude. For some time in my area of Canada, I could buy a gram of weed for less than a head of lettuce ($6 vs $7)

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[–] [email protected] 44 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, people stopped caring about work because we all know it doesn't matter. You can give every last inch of yourself to your employer and they will simply say "not enough". You can give your left kidney to an executive in need of a transplant, in the hopes that it will look good on your review, and the executive will say, "Should have given me both kidneys.". They are hungry and ravenous beasts, who bite and bite and bite and are never full.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It’s really hard to give a shit about working when doing so only barely keeps you from being homeless, meanwhile the CEO drives to work every day in his Ferrari.

EDIT: That is to say, we want to give a shit and be really passionate about what we do, but it’s tough when the time and effort to do so isn’t properly recognized or compensated. My wife loves taking calls and helping people however she can, but the company she works for prioritizes number of people helped as opposed to the quality of that help. As such, she’s looking to leave her job and the medical field entirely. Her experience is that every single company that writes any sort of prescription is only in it to sell as much product as possible, not actually using that product to help people.

There’s nothing at all wrong with loving what you do, or wanting to love what you do. There’s also nothing wrong with wanting to be able to pay your bills while doing so.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So many different ways to cope with the horrifying idea that companies need us more than we need them. For this rare moment, just a sliver of time, we workers are not forced to prostrate ourselves at their feet. Instead of understanding that labor is a market and right now it’s a sellers market, they are inventing cultural changes to explain their sudden loss of fortune and power.

Millions of American workers died or became disabled due to a virus that we failed to handle responsibly. Millions more left the workforce to care for children or family members. All the while, demand for goods and services stayed strong. More work to do and fewer people to do it, gonna have to pay more for labor. It’s so fucking simple.

It’s not that I don’t care about work, it’s that I don’t care about YOU! I have other options my dude, cough up or I will find somebody who will.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago (3 children)

This also isn't the first time this has happened. The Black Death in the 14th century put the final nail in the coffin of serfdom and also led to the rise of the middle class. It turns out that, when a significant portion of the workforce either dies or leaves the workforce, the bargaining power of the remaining workers goes up. I don't think it's any surprise that we are also seeing a resurgence of unions as well. Workers have been tired of this shit for a long time, we're just now in a position to do something about it.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Talk to some older folks.

As late as 1980, $20.00 made you feel like a big shot. You could buy yourself something fancy, or go out for a nice night on the town, or throw a great party.

You can have $20,000.00 in your hand today and feel like a chump. It won't get you a new car, or make a downpayment on a house, Might let you rent a tiny room for a year, but you'll be eating a lot of ramen.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That's because people already had cars and houses then. So the $20 was extra. You could spend it on a nice meal, or some gas to go on a road trip. You could have seen the Rolling Stones in San Francisco for $15.50 in 1981:

https://www.valueyourmusic.com/items/186268753475-rolling-stones-used-concert-ticket-pair-1981-candlestick-park-san-francisco

Life is "better" now, because communications are essentially free. But basic things cost way more.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 8 months ago

Gen Z here. I have a house, (its small, i wouldn't want a bigger one, because there is no need for it,) a decent car, am married, dont have any debt other than a mortgage, and i can comfortably pay everything i need to now and save a bit for the future. Why would I want to work harder for a better car? I don't have a desire to show off or anything. Instead of working hard for someone else, I want to create things. Stories, games, art, I want to be creative, i dont want to work my ass of for someone else, doing menial labor.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Won't somebody think of the shareholders!

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 8 months ago

I’ve done the math. I make $10,000 less today than I did in 2018, adjusted for inflation. No shit I care less about work.

The pandemic also showed how quick companies were to cut staff the second stuff happened. And while the government quickly came up with PPP, with Trump’s poor oversight, companies learned they could just pocket the money and screw the employees it was meant for.

That said, the pandemic just exposed a lot of long term feelings the younger generation has had.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm just a sponge being squeezed of every ounce of productivity when I'm at work. It's never a case of "you're good enough" but always "aim higher, be better". I'm over it. The veil has been lifted. None of these businesses see me as a human, and I'm dedicating my world to them I'm exchange for the bare minimum. If everyone was fighting together I'd want to rally, but I don't get a better slice of the pie if I make it bigger. So... fuck em.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago (3 children)

What's the point?

I make more than most of my acquaintances in the city (my friends are poor), yet it's not enough to rent a house much less buy one. It's not enough to save for retirement. It's not even enough to move to a better apartment. The only reason I can think of owning a house is my inheritance - period.

My company touts their generous benefits which start on day one. But I'm about to lose access to my therapist because they want to push virtual and self-help resources instead. They publish pamphlets that exaggerate medical benefits, when you go to use them the insurance company says "Nah lol."

We have no union and in fact the state disincentivized formation of unions with "right to work" laws.

Work leaves me feeling exhausted and hopeless. My paycheck covers the bills, buys food, and keeps a derelict roof over my head. Apparently that makes me "lucky" and I should be grateful for it.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 8 months ago

About 90% of all jobs produce useless nonsense like enterprise software, cars and all sorts of clothes. We could've lived in a paradise wearing togas to spaceports by now if not for all the vanity.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I personally was tired of working my ass off for some rich ceo douche bag so I quit and am looking for something better

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

The employers care about neither the employee nor the quality of work. Some People learn to meet expectations and compensation. This is nothing to do with the workers and everything to do with changes in the employers.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 8 months ago

Cause companies don't care. It's a 2 way street. Help me help you.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago

People care less because their money buys less. Why work harder when for most people it wont mean they make any more money? Seems pretty simple to me.

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