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532

Court sees through Ron DeSantis’ lies behind his law banning medical care for trans youth (www.lgbtqnation.com)

submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

41 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A federal judge says that DeSantis was spreading lies when he called gender-affirming care "mutilation."

This year has been all downhill for Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. His presidential aspirations are going up in smoke thanks to his complete lack of charisma and general campaign incompetence. His losing war against Disney is costing Florida taxpayers millions of dollars. Now a federal court all but called DeSantis a liar for the way he justified his ban on medical care for trans youth.

DeSantis repeatedly claimed that the law was necessary to prevent youth from being “mutilated.” In just one example, he went after one reporter who questioned him about it when he signed the bill last May.

“And when you talk to people and I know, like people in your industry will dress it up with a euphemism, and they’ll say it’s health care to cut off the private parts of a 14 or 15 year old,” DeSantis said. “That is not health care. That is mutilation.”

Tell that to U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle.

top 41 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 102 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think it's wrong and bizarre that we cut the private parts of babies just because of a social trend started by a bunch of weirdos. That's why medically unnecessary circumcision before the age of 18 should be regulated.

This is consistent with the tiny minority who view the practice as a covenant with God because you're not allowed to enter into a contract as a minor in the US.

[+] [email protected] -15 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Tbh, I think that irreversible sex change surgeries shouldn't be allowed until the age of 18 (circumcision included). There's a reason that we don't let children do a lot of things, and that's because their brain isn't developed enough to make informed decisions.

There are a lot of things that I personally thought were a good idea in my teens that I definitely wouldn't in my mid 30s, and I'm sure that's true for most people.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’d like to know the stats for how many people under 18 are having actual sex change procedures.

I always assumed the care what we’re receiving at that age was things like hormone therapy, or something that could easily be reversed later.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 11 months ago (3 children)

You are correct, it is only reversible care. Nobody gets a sex change under 18 in the US due to minor status consent and permanent procedures like that. Unfortunately you will find it hard to prove something that doesn't happen, happened. That's why they choose this route so they can claim that they are making sure kids aren't getting sex changes by getting the medical/therapy records for anyone Trans.

The problem is that it's just so they get their info to persecute them, which even if this gets stopped in court it keeps Trans people from seeking professional care due to completely legitimate fears of future breaches. They win whether they get the records or not.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Republicans love to go after things that don’t actually happen.

Just like allowing abortion bans to prevent 8 month abortions which never actually happened unless medically necessary.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

Republicans have to fight made up bullshit, because if they didnt have any made up bullshit..they'd have to deal with the actual, legitimate issues that their rule has caused

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

The only non-reversible surgery that a very small number trans teens get is something that their cis peers also get: gynecomastia surgery. People aren’t worried about whether cis boys are satisfied with it, though. 🤷‍♂️

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

It happens, but it's limited to mastectomies.

There is also the argument that messing with hormones during puberty is probably not a great idea.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This is the lie that is being told. No reputable doctor is doing this. You are right, a teenager can't reliably make those sorts of decisions.

The optimal treatment is a combination. They give drugs that delay puberty, combined with intensive mental health care.

The drugs are because reversing the effects of puberty is hard and invasive. By delaying puberty, they can sidestep a lot of these issues. If the patient decides they were wrong, they can stop the drugs, and puberty will kick in normally.

The mental health care is to help them get a handle on what is actually wrong. It filters out those with other mental health issues, that could be helped better in other ways. It also allows those who want to go through with it to firm up their understanding of what it will entail, and what they need to do prior.

If, after all this, they still want to transition, they can start the process. They are at least now aware of what it will entail, and don't have the baggage of their body lurching in the opposite direction to their mind.

[+] [email protected] -9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, for sure. I'm definitely not against hormones and mental health treatment. It's just weird that "children shouldn't be able to just get permanent, life altering surgery," is a bad take around here.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's an uninformed take because these bans are preventing teens and young adults from accessing blockers and hormones.

[+] [email protected] -10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I never said I supported the laws blocking access to blockers and hormones. You're the one who read more into my comment than what was there.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You need to clarify your point then, keeping in mind that you are in a thread about the state of Florida blocking access to puberty blockers and hormones.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, you need to not make assumptions. The comment I was responding to was discussing circumcision, and had nothing to do with blockers or hormones. I intentionally only brought up surgery.

Anything else was your assumption.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Alex, what is "context"?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The context was the comment chain that at no point mentioned anything but surgery.

If anyone took that to mean I was against all gender affirming care, they made a baseless assumption.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Your comment and several others you've made throughout this thread paint children as fickle, compare medical care to tattoos, and completely ignore that to even get treatments like blockers and cross-sex hormones is a multi-year process with a team of physicians, endocrinologists and therapists.

Hell, if you want to talk about surgery alone, the adult requirements are documentation from two therapists that you have persistent dysphoria, along with your primary physician before a surgeon will even schedule for a consult, from there, you go on a wait list that can span multiple years. For under 18s, the process is even more rigorous, requiring longer documentation, and wait lists often push back care past 18.

Put simply, I don't believe you.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

I don't care if you don't believe me. You're drawing the wrong conclusions because you're expecting me to be against hormones and blockers. You're almost using that argument as a strawman.

You are wrong. All I said was children should wait until they're an adult before undergoing life altering irreversible surgery. Full stop.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

It's a dog whistle, from the right wing.

They need to rile up their base. They used to do this with abortion, but they accidentally caught that particular car. They've apparently decided trans people will be their new whipping boy.

They are using the same playbook as with abortion, namely false equivalences. They say they are against genital mutilated of children. When it comes to laws however, they go after the very existence of trans people.

This is why people are reacting so strongly.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

Do consider this doesn't actually happen - but this hypothetical point is often repeated and signal-boosted above the bad things that actually do happen to trans kids, and people who simply don't want us to exist fully believe it's real, discuss it as our agenda, and even threaten institutions and doctors who may or may not actually provide gender affirming care.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

It’s a bad take, because it’s not what is being argued, and it is heavily insinuated that the only reason such an insane thing is being argued against is because someone is arguing for it.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago

Okay, can we just take a minute to acknowledge that the ONLY gender affirming surgery legally on the table before you are 16 is for breasts?

It also requires the sign off of a legal guardian and there are a bunch of recommendations in place from therapists about how to make good long term decisions so it's not like minors are making uninformed decisions on their own.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But your brain is so developed it can decide what's good for others. Kindly shut up.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago

This, but for religiously motivated circumcision.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 11 months ago

Ron.

You picked the correct description of the portions of the body underground surgery.

They are indeed private parts, and therefore none of your god-damned business.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 11 months ago

I hope they strike down every one of these bigoted garbage laws.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 11 months ago

Get rekt you insecure bitch

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

LOL, the hits keep coming. Remember how ronnie was supposed to be the new Great White Hope for the cons?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

He still is. They want him to run in 2028.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What a small tiny man, with a disproportionately tiny heart.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

He always looks like he just realized he got stung by a bee, and he's allergic.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

His losing war against Disney is costing Florida taxpayers millions of dollars.

How is this "conservative"?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You have fallen for the grift... "conservative" doesn't refer to money conservation or a cautious disposition towards taking measures. Oftentimes Conservative ideology and politics is neither of those things beong actually more wasteful and sporadic than other political parties ...

At it's core Conservatism believes in a heirachy that requires effort to conserve from the forces which scatter power horizontally. Social welfare programs, debt relief, market protections, union power and democratic elections are all things which upset the "naturally" forming heirachy like one might conserve a nature preserve. That the heirachy they are fighting is actually fairly artificially enforced isn't something you are supposed to think about. Originally they were post revolution pacts conserving the power of the old powers... rich land owners , the lords, monarchists, the industrialists, the capitalists, colonization and imperialist powers... And they still kind of are.

In this instance Disney essentially has power it was granted outside the Conservative veiw of "efficient" heirachy. Disney was fine until they started doing things that conflicted with party directives and exercising their power autonomously. It's not doing what the officers who veiw themselves as rightful weilders of power want them to do so it must be busted to conserve the food chain.

Should Disney have that level of sovereignty? Probably not, but watching snakes try and swallow each other starting at the tail is fun.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

You have fallen for the grift

Actually I haven't; just pointing out how full of shit they are.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I find it helpful to leave no muddy water or room for misinterpretation. Conservatives understand hypocrisy well and they prime every one of their folk to not consider or think of it.

"Conservative" being a reference or implicationto a policy that is expected to be either frugal or tempered by moderation and due concern is basically branding gold. Conservatives LIVE for that shit. It's why socially progressive people still hold onto "but I am still a little conservative" seed. Because everyone thinks they are moderate and the belief that the Conservatives are cutting services to save money seems to make sense to them. The minute you try and get them on why they cut or outsource social programs they plead money saving and the second you throw a budget in front of the public proving they are still overspending you get whataboutisms, red herrings or logical fallacies because that's how they train people to think... Or not think rather. They are already trained to let an argument about spending just slide over them and never sink in.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

___