There’s only 1 Caesar, or Slim Shady, or Charlemagne or Attila.

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[–] 91 points 4 months ago (3 children)

"Alexander" was an incredibly common name in the Greek world. Even within his own family tree, he was technically Alexander III of Macedon. Using "The Great" was a practical necessity for historians to distinguish him from his father’s predecessors and the dozens of other Alexanders running around the Mediterranean. Plus his scale of impact was absurd! Charlemagne literally means “Charles the Great” because there were many Charleses. Finally, while we usually think of Julius Caesar, "Caesar" became a title used by every Roman Emperor for centuries. It eventually evolved into "Kaiser" and "Tsar". If you just say "Caesar" in a room full of Roman history buffs they actually will ask you to disambiguate which one you mean

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Does this technically mean the the little orange freakshow is also a 'Donald the Great'? He's technically the most succesful 'Donald', as the only one why made it to leader of a country and the only one with diapers and a nussy.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    Names only stick if history validates you. Plenty of other rulers ended up getting remembered through the lens of discontent, bad press by who came later, and sometimes mistranslation. Ivan IV Grozny was a ruthless dude, but “Grozny” meant awe-provoking or imposing, whereas in English “Terrible” tends to imply evil. Æthelred II Unræd meant “good counsel”, but as that word fell out of use in English he got stuck with “Unready” because it just happens to be similar in form but not meaning.

    Donnie probably wishes he’ll be remembered as something special, but informally Diaper Don will outlive him and I don’t foresee history being gentle with its performance review.

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  • [–] 47 points 4 months ago* (10 children)

    There’s only 1 Caesar

    Not necessarily. I originally thought the phrase "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" from the Bible referred to Julius Caesar, but apparently it refers to Tiberius.

    Though in modern times "Caesar" almost ubiquitously is referencing Julius

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    It's/was basically the chief. Kaiser comes from that word IIRC. It's a bit like "king". Julius just made it stick to him, a bit like a brand name!

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  • [–] 26 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Fun fact: there was actually zero Charlesmagnes.

    The guy was called Charles le Magne (French for Charles the Great) and some barely literate idiot who had somehow* got the translator job in spite of clearly not being anywhere near fluent in French made up a stupid new word born of ignorance that the English speaking world has been using ever since.

    *I'm guessing he was the failson of the groom of the stool or something like that.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (6 children)

    I don't know when that happened for the English language, but Charlemagne (as a single word) is also what the French language calls him, the earliest variations of it appearing in the Song of Roland (11th c.)

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    So you're telling me that, presumably due to medieval French people having an irrational fear of spaces between words or an allergy to proper kerning, his name WAS actually the equivalent of Charlesthegreat like some German compound noun weirdness?

    Huh. TIL!

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago*

    an irrational fear of spaces between words or an allergy to proper kerning

    Yeah uh, medieval language was not nearly as entrenched in rules and grammar, and absolutely not set in stone. Things changed from one text to another - even within the same text. The same Song of Roland writes that same name in a few different ways, some with spaces, some without, with different letters.

    From the French Wikipedia, count'em :

    Carles (vers 1) ou Charles (28, vers 370), Carles li magnes (68, vers 841) ou Charles li magnes (93, vers 1195), traductions de Carolus magnus, mais aussi Carlemagnes (33, vers 430) ou Charlemaignes (138, vers 1842)

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    "Boss, I can save you a couple of deniers' worth of ink and paper over the course of the tome by writing Charlemagne instead of Charles Le Magne every time we refer to the great king."

    "Brilliant! You get an extra serving of gruel for lunch!"

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  • [–] 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Charlemagne is in the same boat, it means Charles the Great

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    The name Charlemagne annoys me because in most other languages it's Charles (or Karl) the Great, but in English and apparently French it's shortened to Charlemagne though he was originally Charles Le Magne in French?

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  • [–] 14 points 4 months ago
    [–] 11 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Among Greeks, if you say Alexandros (or Philip for that matter) then people will know who you are talking about. But basically, those names are still in use. Caesar became the word for leaders rather than a name, and it's relatively rare as a first name.

    Charlemagne is actually Charles le magne which means Charles the Great. If you called him "King Charles" you'd need to be much more specific.

    I can't speak for Attila, because I don't know if the name is popular in any particular cultures. Certainly in the USA, the Hun king is the most famous Attila.

    Slim Shady is an interesting example, because its's basically branding for Marshall Mathers aka Eminem. One of his first widespread hits was a song essentially saying that he's the only real Slim Shady, and anyone else using that nickname is a copycat poser.

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    [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Alexander is a common name, but it depends on context, if you say "at the time Alexander conquered X" most people would understand, but if you say "Alexander was here" you might be talking about a work college.

    There's not only one Caesar, while you probably beat Julius Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius and others were also "Caesar", and you might referring to any of them. For example, "give to Caesar what is Caesar’s" does not refer to the same Caesar you probably meant.

    Slim shady is a made up name and it's way more specific than the .

    Charlemagne is short for Charles Magnus, or in English Charles the great, so that's exactly the same.

    Attila is a very unique name, I've never met nor heard about any other Attila so the name is disambiguation enough, but it's likely that if that is a common name in some country they have an extra qualifier to it, I've heard Attila the Hun, but there might be others.

    There's nothing special, if a name is common you need disambiguation, if a name is overly specific you don't, same reason why we have last names, "I met with John the other day", "which John?", "The Smith", "Ah yeah, John Smith, not John the son of Richard", "No, I haven't seen John Richardson in a few weeks".

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Caesar, or Charlemagne or Attila.

    Well, those are fairly uniquely-identifiable names in the scheme of things. "Caesar" isn't just the guy at your local pizzeria, but THE Caesar of Caesars. "Charlemagne" is a combination of the common name "Charles" and <"great"> as with Alexander. "Attila" is a rarer name, already with a certain stigma, so quite unique in that sense.

    "Alex" / "Alexander" is still a pretty common name today, so it makes some sense that there'd be a qualifier. Not unlike with Peter the Great , Catherine the Great, etc...

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Also I would say Atilla is usually called Atilla the Hun in most textbooks I saw in the U.S. Also since Caesar became a position/title we still say Julius to specifically refer to him.

    As for Slim Shady, I seem to remember many people standing up to that name

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Also I would say Atilla is usually called Atilla the Hun

    Good point, and I think I whiffed a bit on that one. "Atilla" is actually a name still used sometimes today across Europe, so "the Hun" definitely adds some helpful context.

    Also since Caesar became a position/title we still say Julius to specifically refer to him.

    You mean, in Italy?

    In the States, I feel like it's pretty clear that "Caesar" without further context refers to either a leader / dictator / emperor of the Julio-Claudian line, or more commonly to Julius himself. The point being that if you're referring to one of the emperors, it's usually necessary to name them, i.e. "Caesar Tiberius," etc.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Caesar (Cesar or Cesare) is still a pretty common name today though.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago

    While there is only one Gaius Julius Caesar, his lastname has been used as title by various successors.

    Slim Shady is a self invented stage name so there is not really a point in anyone adopting it as their own unless they are comfortable being called a copycat all the time.

    Charlemagne actually is short for the French version of Charles the Great so it is a title name combination just as Alexander the Great.

    Atilla probably sounds unique to you because it's an uncommon name in the west.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    You don't want to get him mixed up with Alexander the Just Kind of OK at Things, do you?

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    I know like 5 dudes called Cesar.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    "The Great" is a moniker given to certain rulers. England has only one. List of people known as the Great - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_known_as_the_Great

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    [–] 7 points 4 months ago

    All the other Alexanders are just imitating

    !look, there were already great answers, so there was room for a joke one!<

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    There’s only 1 Caesar

    Julius or Augustus? Or Edward Swallow, Ave, trve to Caesar!

    Caesar is actually a title, and where the German word Kaiser and the Russian word Czar came from.

    Slim Shady is a rap name, it's probably copyrighted tbh.

    Charlamagne the God or Charlemagne the King/Emporer?

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    [–] 5 points 4 months ago

    I'd say it's because Alexander is still such a very common name.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    “Charlemagne” literally means “Charles the Great”.

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    [–] 3 points 4 months ago*

    In my experience, in context people often do drop the "the Great" and just say Alexander.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    No, it's because he conquered the known world, and he left a lasting influence/political structure behind him as he went.

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  • there's several caesars, slim shady nobody else has that name, Charlemagne is French for Charles the Great, and Attila was antiwestern so they wouldn't name him "great"

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    Pretty sure his friends call him Alexander of Macedonia.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    disambiguate

    quite a meaningless idea.

    It was meant to praise him, not because of any kind of neccessity.

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