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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Valnao@sh.itjust.works to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world
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[-] grue@lemmy.world 204 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs

For the record, this is 100% a lie. Every single warrant document (list of criteria) used by an engineer will have two magic words written at the bottom of the list:

"Engineering judgement."

That means there is no such thing as a "required traffic volume" for a stop sign or any other kind of signal or marking. If the engineer, in his professional judgement, agrees that one is warranted, it's warranted.

Engineers who hide behind things like warrants, pretending their hands are tied by them, are cowards and aren't doing their jobs properly.

The city engineer who refused to approve the stop sign didn't want to approve it because he cared more about drivers' convenience than he did children's safety, but was too chickenshit to tell it to the dad's face.

[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 83 points 1 month ago

If 50 people sign a petition, you don't need to do a study. Just put in the fucking stop sign.

[-] Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 65 points 1 month ago

Even if the vehicle traffic didn’t meet some imaginary quota, that says nothing of the pedestrian traffic. Just another signal of our car-centric society.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 15 points 1 month ago

That's typically one of the warrants. In addition to vehicle, bicycle, and pedestrian volumes, other warrants include things like vehicle approach speed, sight distance, and crash statistics.

[-] NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 25 points 1 month ago

There are stop signs in the middle of nowhere Ohio, where there's literally a few cars on the road a day. I don't see how volume should come into play when you're next to a playground.

[-] Angrydeuce@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Yeah here in WI too. Like on 55mph state highways in the literal middle of nowhere, as in the intersection is corn fields on every quadrant.

Its weird, but of course I stop. Im only ever stopping for the corn, but I aint trying to have some cop come flying out of the corn and tear my ass up either lol

[-] HobbitFoot 3 points 1 month ago

There is usually some guidance, although the regulations are usually written with more wiggle room than structural standards because of varying site conditions.

However, the hill causing an increase to the speed of the car and that the area has a known pedestrian draw to it would tip the scales more towards installing a stop sign.

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 136 points 1 month ago

Just install these instead:

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 41 points 1 month ago

hey that's cheating. that was how i crossed busy streets when i was walking home from undergrad.

i had a bright neon painted metal water bottle. I would raise it and make eye contact. just like that. like, this is mine, but it can be yours. you don't know if it weighs an ounce or 5 pounds. stops traffic remarkably well, especially considering the law and the sign everyone ignored right above my head said "stop for pedestrians".

yes, i did have a death wish you don't need to ask. living in utah does that to you when you've seen life on the outside.

[-] TwilitSky@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Is Utah that bad? It's at the top of so many lists. I could imagine the people being the biggest problem, though.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

it was, yeah.

there is incentive to game those lists. they are... what is the word... tourism? advertisement? other places don't have as much riding on gaming those lists as utah does. it's not their religion that looks bad when it's not #1.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 92 points 1 month ago

The city ultimately determined the intersection did not meet the required traffic volume for additional stop signs,

It shouldn't be about how much traffic there is. If people are going too fast and/or there's a visibility issue and/or there's danger of kids walking into the street, there needs to be a stop sign because that actually slows people down and makes it safer for everyone involved. Even my carbrain understands that.

[-] Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago

The panthers used to get stop lights put in in weeks that localities had been refusing calls from for years. You want to do stuff like this, get organized. And not dancing in frog suits organized, militant, community focused organized with educational programs and childcare for your community.

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[-] SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 74 points 1 month ago

That's a hard line to walk. Being so afraid your kid will get hit by a car that you do something that could get you sent to prison, where you certainly won't be able to do anything for said kid.

The city officials need to be the ones facing consequences for this, not him.

[-] ryathal@sh.itjust.works 52 points 1 month ago

Courts and juries are somewhat good at identifying bureaucratic incompetence. Prison is unlikely, but the fact he will have to appear in court likely a few times to resolve this is still not great.

[-] PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

He will probably get a fine at the end of the day

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[-] Entertainmeonly@lemmy.blahaj.zone 39 points 1 month ago
[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 57 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

As much as this case might have been justified (which we just don't know without the traffic study), condoning random people fucking with street signage is a terrible idea. There are very good reasons not to randomly change traffic patterns, especially outside of a popular park; fuckcars, but also vigilante traffic engineering is an insanely dangerous game to play. If this brings attention to it and they reevaluate, well done this traffic martyr. But he absolutely should have been arrested for this, if only to prevent a precedent for people who decide to "fix" other traffic issues.

[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 19 points 1 month ago

Nah, this road is a fucking textbook example of a bad neighborhood intersection.

Wide straight road with a hill on one side leads to unsafe driving speeds. Combined with parking at the intersection making visibility low for anyone crossing the intersection (cars, pedestrians, and bikes all included!)

This intersection needs intervention, and a stop sign is a bare minimum solution. Speed bumps and daylighting would also be justified.

We know we build unsafe intersections, we don't need a traffic study to confirm it, especially if you have a large number of residents with the same complaint.

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[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

Much like that park bathroom that was going to cost something like $2M to install in San Francisco. Once the residents and news got ahold of the story, suddenly the bathroom would only cost $100k to install.

[-] IWW4@lemmy.zip 24 points 1 month ago

I don't have a problem with this.

Random people don't get to decide where stop signs go and do not go.

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

[-] barooboodoo@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 month ago

How about if someone just decided to remove a stop sign.

Are those 2 situations equivalent at all? I can't think of a situation where adding a stop sign up would make the intersection more dangerous whereas the removal of one would almost certainly make it more dangerous. In your mind is the only way to regulate this to ban both for some reason?

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[-] warm@kbin.earth 6 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately, yes, they have to "punish" this.

But it's still a great publicity stunt that has now gotten the eyes of many people, a new petition on the matter would likely gather a lot more support.

[-] joyjoy@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 month ago

The cops don't care if the stop sign wasn't there. They'll give you a ticket anyway.

[-] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

While yes, you get out of the ticket if you prove the sign was missing at the time of the infraction.

Edit: Just don’t give them any attitude or they’ll arrest you for resisting arrest.

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

Brb, adding a bike lane to the nearest stroad

[-] Doom@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago

Our own neighborhoods don't belong to us.

[-] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 14 points 1 month ago

And once someone (probably a child) gets hit and dies, the city will say how sorry this tragedy is... will claim they'll do something, and then do nothing. Because words are cheap. Oh, and they'll act like this wasn't avoidable, there was no way to know this kind of thing could happen.

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[-] devolution@lemmy.world 13 points 1 month ago

Its quota season.

[-] DragonAce@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

This was in El Segundo? Wonder if they found my wallet.

[-] abbadon420@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

Good! Filthy criminal! Lock 'm up!

/s

[-] taiyang@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago

Huh, always weird when I see local news on my Lemmy feed.

FYI, South Bay is especially car brained, even my LA. We have a major refinery, some car manufacturer HQs, and I'm pretty sure more mechanics per capita than most of Cali. Long history with the automotive industry going back to the founding of a lot of these little cities.

It's a shame, too. The beach cities are lovely places to walk and somehow have terrible biking and public transportation infrastructure. The people there can be a bit entitled, though (and it's it just me or did this guy do it right outside his fucking home? Lol). But I don't know a solution, it's practically every other day someone is mowed down 'round here by a muscle car, and the areas East of El Segundo have a lot more waking families since we can't afford cars.

A little hope, though. I saw they mentioned the Sawtelle area too. I used to live there, and not only did they 180 on that case, Stoner Park is now surrounded by mini roundabouts. So change does happen after this type of thing, and their jurisdiction is LA itself, not a smaller city in a city.

[-] Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

imo if you are going to start changing how the road is, start blocking it or start damaging the road to force a speedbump or hole. It's a lot cheaper than spending 1000$ on a sign they can easily just take down, a lot faster and less likely to get caught in the act.

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this post was submitted on 30 Mar 2026
499 points (97.9% liked)

Mildly Infuriating

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