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Brazil shocked to find that 13,000 students about to graduate from medical school lack basic knowledge to practice medicine (english.elpais.com)

submitted 2 months ago by Ondore@lemmy.world to c/nottheonion@lemmy.world

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[-] pdqcp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 65 points 2 months ago

It’s no surprise that federal public universities have received the highest marks; they are universally recognized as the best. But the evaluation of medical programs has also revealed that tuition fees can be inversely proportional to the quality of the education being offered. Medicine schools that scored the lowest (1 or 2 on a scale of 1-5) charge each student between $1,100 and $2,600 a month, according to a detailed analysis by Veja magazine. This is veritable fortune in a country where the minimum wage is $313 a month.

How can you charge so much compared to their minimum wage and still be so bad?

[-] agingelderly@lemmy.world 50 points 2 months ago

Ah, the American approach

[-] kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 2 months ago

Ah, the ~~American~~ Capitalist approach

Ftfy

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 30 points 2 months ago

Trust fund babies. Just like here.

[-] atomicorange@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Students that are paying a fortune can expect and demand high grades for little work, they’re paying extra for the “deluxe” degree where all the hard stuff is done for them. It’s really common with for-profit universities.

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 4 points 2 months ago

Exactly. That's why the commodification of education is a travesty that can't be overstated...

[-] klymilark@herbicide.fallcounty.omg.lol 11 points 2 months ago

I mean... American minimum wage comes out to $1256 monthly (assuming full-time, and that's pre-tax). Community college comes in pretty cheap at $450 a month on average, but four year universities come up to $4,800 on average (assuming full-time enrollment for both). The cheapest MD programs I can find are still close to twice the minimum wage, and that's assuming you get in-state tuition, since out of state is usually 2-3x more.

[-] mushroommunk@lemmy.today 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Try $290 monthly minimum wage. This is Brazil not America in the article. Unless you're saying It's better ratio of wage to tuition than America, which is not hard

[-] klymilark@herbicide.fallcounty.omg.lol 9 points 2 months ago

It's about the same is what I was saying, yeah

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 2 points 2 months ago

And that doesn't include books and other necessary materials.

[-] Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

kinda like carribean ones, and likely wont be eligble for praticing medicine in the states, because they have much more stringent requirements, which tend to ignore "diploma-mill like medical schools". if you're a foreign trained"MD that is not from the UK, aus, EU , canada" you will have a extremely hard time to pratice in the states or in any of those countries.

[-] jacksilver@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I've found in higher education that many programs that act as diploma mills charge a lot because they can. They know the students are just looking for the degree and that the school is probably their only choice.

[-] protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 2 months ago

fun fact the minimum wage is yearly readjusted and based on the cost of common basic items

how is it so bad? I have no fucking clue, we have chronic critical shortage of medics since as far as I can remember

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 53 points 2 months ago

graduate

lack basic knowledge

Why are they graduating in the first place? Who is passing these students? Stop passing students who can't show they learned anything, maybe? Novel idea, I know.

[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago

It's mostly private institutions passing people because they just care about the money and nothing else.

[-] village604@adultswim.fan 20 points 2 months ago

Those institutions need to lose their accreditation then.

[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

That exam wasnt created for that and there is a very difficult exam to get a residency which is required for more 'complex' doctor jobs, so people didnt see the need for that until now. They are working on changes though that could involve shutting down courses that fail to meet the necessary standards

[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

They are restricting new enrollment for now while they make other plans. Removing accreditation would punish the students more than the system. Also, they aren't all private.

[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Source? The literal subtitle of the article says it's private and public institutions.

[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Try reading beyond the subtitle

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[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago

Corruuuuuption!

Americans, pay attention, because this is where you're headed in speed run fashion

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 8 points 2 months ago

I believe we USians invented the model.

[-] tempest@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 months ago

Aha your president represents this exact form of corruption too

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 6 points 2 months ago

All of them, really. This one just hasn't enough game or reason to hide it.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

His brain is too hollow innit

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 3 points 2 months ago

speed run fashion

[-] Fmstrat@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago

They... Are? Seems like a lot of people responding aren't reading the article, so:

Brazil is huge, and has the largest public healthcare system in the world.
This is the first time they've conducted a national test against medical universities
They are not punishing students, but the universities, and restricting new enrollment at them

And no, they are not all private institutions.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Seems like a lot of people responding aren't reading the article, so

You're insinuating I didn't read the article. 😛 But you're right, I didn't, because the statement I was referring to is right in the title.

How are they "about to graduate" if teachers weren't passing them when they shouldn't have, if they lack basic knowledge? You shouldn't be reaching the end of your medical programme about to graduate if you haven't passed any courses. 🤷‍♂️

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[-] atro_city@fedia.io 27 points 2 months ago

Tax your rich, investigate corruption, close the loopholes.

[-] REDACTED@infosec.pub 21 points 2 months ago

Something I think about after seeing such titles is the fact that education system curriculums have gotten insane around the world. Kids study 3 times more than what I had to study back then. Nearly all are failing. We are really pushing the human limits here.

[-] KatakiY@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

Yeah that's what I've been saving for at least a decade. Every company I worked for has feature creep in what you are expected to be an expert in and at a certain point you don't actually know anything you're just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.

[-] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

you're just vaguely aware of a lot of different things.

Same

[-] Canconda@lemmy.ca 21 points 2 months ago

The global economy is so broken that there's barely financial incentive to become a doctor anymore. The system only sustained for so long because we outsourced medical training to places like South Africa.

[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 15 points 2 months ago

Always take these stories with a grain of salt. Especially with a salacious headline such as "organization shocked"

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 12 points 2 months ago

Meh, it just says new exam was introduces and a lot of students failed. This just means the schools are not good at preparing students for this exam, not that they don't prepare for practicing medicine. I would say it's normal that universities will need time to adapt their courses to the requirements of the exams. Maybe students are not well prepared for the format or maybe the just need to put greater focus on different parts of the curriculum. I don't think this means that graduates are somehow less prepared, just that the new exam is another barrier for them to begin practice which means it will slow down induction of new doctors into the workforce. Hopefully they will adapt fast and this will not have any long term repercussions.

[-] PumaStoleMyBluff@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Framed differently, it could mean the new exam is a poor indicator of readiness to practice medicine.

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 points 2 months ago

Exactly. Impossible to tell from this article alone.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It could be either way.

In a for profit setting when those who do the work are the very same people/institutions who measure the quality of that work (in this case schools which both teach something and then measure how well that something was taught), it's not at all uncommon that the measuring methodology gets changed over time to yield better results for the same work rather than the work changing to improve the results in the existing measurement methodology.

This is why independent measuring of results is a thing.

In this case to know for sure we would have to get the opinions of existing medical practicioners who have worked side by side with recent graduates from these and other schools - if they tend to see graduates from these schools as coming in worse prepared than those from other schools, then this outcome we saw is probably due to the kind of situation I described above.

[-] Mellow12@lemmy.world 5 points 2 months ago

Thank you for the hot topic, One day old account.

[-] Formfiller@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

But are their parents rich?

[-] protogen420@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 months ago

depends,

in Brazil, public universities are mostly attended by the rich for free

paid ones are usually also mostly attenddd by the rich though on average less rich

the reason? even though there extremely generous inclusion programs and quotas for poor and students that studied in public education system their whole lives the public universities are very competitive and hard to get into and since the basic public school system is utter garbage any student from private schools is at a huge advantage

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this post was submitted on 04 Feb 2026

353 points (98.9% liked)

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