We have a lot of options for all social media and other apps, but it is hard to catch people's attention. How can we make more people use these platforms rather than a platform that p.dophiles run

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[–] 80 points 7 months ago* (6 children)

(1) Network effects. People want to use social media that everyone else is using. Once a site achieves a critical mass of users it becomes the obvious choice to join. It also becomes difficult to leave because if you have built up a personal network on most sites, you can’t take it with you.

(2) Convenience. Most sites don’t require a lot of effort to use. In the past few years this one has surprised me a bit. The level of effort most people are willing to put in to trying a new site is basically 0. Using something like lemmy requires you to read a few paragraphs and make a decision about a home instance. That is too much effort for a lot of people.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago

    For convenience, it also doesn't help that OSS is extremely hit and miss and inconsistent between developers.

    This includes:

    • App names
    • UI/UX
    • Features
    • Quality of life
    • Being a fucking dick to newcomers

    At the end of the day, regular people want something that just works™. They don't want to have to dig through ancient tomes old form posts to figure out that a depreciated version of an app has been supersceeded by a slightly differently named version by a completely different dev that requires some weird dependencies that conflict with another app's dependencies and everything just breaks at some point... It's a pain in the ass.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Using something like lemmy requires you to read a few paragraphs and make a decision about a home instance.

    Hell, it isn't even a major decision since moving instances is so easy now. Yes, it impacts the initial experience, but every social media app starts with a default experience and usage refines it from there.

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    [–] 23 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Well, often they are just not as good and active. Most people care about content and service more than principles.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm on Lemmy due to principles but I am the kind of guy who will reject every single "legitimate interest" cookie consent, even if I have to click 300 times to do that... And even I went back to Reddit after my first encounter with Lemmy. The lack of content is a huge issue.

    Decentralisation is an issue as well. Yes, it is here to solve problems, but it solves problems that big platforms face, but it creates a bunch of small problems that kill small platforms.

    Most people don't want to be forced to choose which one of the hundred providers they want to use, when they never heard about any of them, they have no idea what's the difference and don't care enough to learn... Shit, even I never cared to check what is the difference between Lemmy instances. And then you might have one community split between 10 instances... Each with one or two posts... And all long dead. Maybe one community with 10 times the user base could survive?

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    A lot of great comments, but another one that's not mentioned: money and advertising

    Open source / non profit run websites don't have money to burn on mobile ads, and many wouldn't want to put money into the ad industry even if they did.

    It doesn't guarantee users, plenty of startups fail after promotional campaigns, but it definitely helps people learn about the platform

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    This ☝️

    but even more than ad, there is powerful marketing lock-in strategies: PCs come preinstalled with windows. Schools use and promote google stuff. Office is free and promted for university students, and same goes for Matlab and other scientific software

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Open source does not have billions of dollars to spend on marketing.

    We can work together to polish apps/software and use word of mouth. This will help to grow these other options.

    Explosive growth is driven by large dollar amounts. Think LinkedIn being included as a shortcut in Windows, or every phone coming with Facefuck pre installed.

    Until we can get people away from platforms owned by major corporations we will not be able to shrug off the programs they push on people.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    I'm reasonably confident that the reason has a lot to do with social proof. I don't think it has much to do with UX, or amount of content, because both of those reasons would require people to actually try the fediverse to find out. In my experience, people don't cite reasons as to why they won't try a lesser-known platform, they enter a low-key fight-or-flight mode and sort of go blank, shut down, and don't engage with the idea either way. It's kind of spooky once you notice it in person.

    To speculate, I think perhaps centralized, corporate services have an immediate advantage, because a brand name and a logo inherently provides a certain amount of social proof, since corporate brands and logos are so central to Western culture.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Social media only matters if there’s people there. How can you convince someone of jumping ship to an empty place?

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  • [+] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)
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    [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    I think that it would be easier for them to give up social media completely than to move somewhere else without people.

    The only way would be to have something there that they need or want and then tell them to make an account in a specific place, no choosing instances bullshit, they'll figure it out eventually if they're interested.

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  • [+] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    You can both host your own ATproto PDS and even sign up for or migrate to third parties like Blacksky; for now. I won't be surprised if Bsky corporate started getting hostile to that and closed-sourcing ATproto and both paywalling self-hosted PDSes and C&Ding third parties like the aforementioned Blacksky at some point though.

    ActivityPub at least doesn't have that problem, and also, unless you can interface with Blacksky's infrastructure, self-hosted PDSes still have to deal with Bsky corporate's centralized infrastructure on some level at least for moderation, where if you self-host an ActivityPub instance, assuming this is on hardware you physically own and control, you own the whole thing.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Because marketing department haven't been open sourced yet

    Microsoft, Apple, etc spend billions on marketing, whereas open source spends about 0. It relies wholly on word of mouth advertisements, and just showing people that it's actually better and free

    Believe you me, if tomorrow we get world wide advertising for a free operating system that works better than Window crap or apple crap, that won't spy, and is free, a LOT more people will jump in.

    I'm guessing that "open source" either is completely u known or still is a bit of a dirty word for people, associated with "alternative software" so it must be worse than the "real" software, right?

    Even though in many MANY ways its superior to corporate software. And its free. And its almost always free as well.

    I'm guessing that the cloud services has also been a response from tech companies to open source because on the one hand they get to use open source software for free without giving back anything and on the other hand they get to sell subscription services for stuff that should be free anyways.

    Again, most SaaS software providers put there float on open source software, yet they'll charge you through the nose for the little layer they built on top of that. There are other such layers available for free in the open source community,but you'll have to set it up yourself. That is the basic difference.

    For me, o host everything myself.

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    [–] 8 points 7 months ago*

    Getting individuals to switch to something not commercial isn't that hard, in my experience or opinion except in the case of instant messenger or other communication apps. The main point of contention with chat, or SM, is they are not there for the service. They are there because the people they know are there.

    Unless you can get the majority of people switching at once, it's gonna be really hard to get an individual, or even a handful to move.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    I was watching a livestream the other day by someone who appears intelligent and knowledgeable enough to know that she should probably give up Windows and use Linux instead. So far as I could tell there isn't really any reason why she shouldn't. It was the kind of stream where she had plenty of time to just talk freely about whatever was on her mind, and usually that's nothing to do with computers or their operating systems. But she was thinking of doing it. She worries about this and that. She wonders if OBS will work as well, she imagines it would be a lot of work, she seems unsure that her tech skills would be good enough, she worries that it might go wrong, that it might not be worth it, that she might pick the wrong distro, that her webcam wouldn't work, that it might be a colossal waste of time for very little benefit.

    People unaccustomed to software freedom find it hard to understand how it would benefit them. People are afraid of change.

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  • [+] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Depends on what you mean by accessibility.
    You can browse and post on the fediverse from any text-only browser, which makes it easy to use screen reader software and navigate it without a mouse.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    People have been made used to closed gardens. Some people can’t comprehend that open gardens and free choice exists.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    People do not care about decentralization and privacy that is the harsh reality. The best way to promote privacy is to not talk about privacy and provide concrete advantages and unique feature.

    Most people moved to Cara not pixelfed. Most people moved to upscrolled not loops.

    Also the marketing is terrible. The fediverse creators should go to tech podcast, contact tech medias, participating to general tech events etc

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    [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Familiarity.

    It was a pain in the ass for me to even try to get people I knew to even try Discord, if they weren't already on it. They just love their Facebook too much to even take a moment to poke their head out and see the alternatives.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Everyone wants to be where everyone else is at.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Change is hard for most people. When much of the world runs on Android/Google and Mac/iPhone its hard to convince people to switch. Hell, it's hard to switch when you actually do want to leave because the infrastructure is so proprietary and locked in. I'm in the process of de-googling my phone but i use Google applications for work, so its been difficult. Not impossible, but very difficult.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago*

    Onboarding is a nightmare

    Advice is always "first make a series of crucial yet obtuse choices based on vibes" and then immediately pivots to "get good"

    New platforms, launchers, apps, etc are hailed as perfect alts one day and decried as abandoned buggy corpo trash 3 days later

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    It's always contents. Being open source or decentralised is never the sole reason that convinces someone to use them. Same reason why people avoid hexbear even though it's open source, or Truth social even though it's based on Mastodon (I know they're not open source anymore nor decentralised but you get the idea).

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Bringing more people would ruin these platforms just as they ruined the other platforms.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    As much as it would be nice to see more activity on the Fediverse as a whole. It would all turn upside down very quick the more people jumped on and it would devolve things into a similar environment that readily accessible social media platforms have long devolved into.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    For social media: Aside from the reason that everyone they know is on the popular ones, it's also because of the algorithms. People are too lazy to curate their feed, and algorithms tickle the part of our brains that light up and keep us engaged.

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  • [+] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    For social media an important point is inertia/network effects combined with marketing. And I think a lot of open source/decentralised advocates are not good at marketing, while at the same time network effects can't kick in due to lack of content. Because ultimately most people don't care about it being open source or decentralised, most people care about content. If your favourite youtuber is not on peertube, then why use peertube. If your favourite celebrity is not on mastodon/pixelfed/loops then why use those. If there is no community for your favourite sportsball team on lemmy/piefed why join those platforms?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Its not as convinient, and you can't blame anyone but yourself when it breaks.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'd say that last part is more important than people realize.

    Normies are used to the idea of whining whenever something doesn't work. If they don't have someone to whine to, they genuinely have no concept of what to do instead.

    Interacting with the open source ecosystem is a very humanizing endeavor. Modern consumers are pretty much anything but human at this point.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I'm going with "it's not actually harder to promote decentralized options". But they tend not to have marketing teams.

    If one were to assemble an active professional marketing team for a decentralized tool, the team would be similarly effective as they would be for a centralized tool.

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    [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    A lot of people don't care and are just looking for their instant gratification.

    They also don't want to entertain the idea that they may have been doing things wrong all this time.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Was it ever easy?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Too busy being enslaved under this system of wage slavery

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    The public LOVES easy options

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    People who value things like open source are more likely to be curious people who enjoy understanding something

    often such projects require active engagement and self education they also reward people look deeply into something

    Look at things like Facebook everything is designed to lead you to an endpoint you are not ever allowed to understand how the machine works they reward people who shallowly engage often at a base less

    It's not mere complacency these platforms are designed for different people the people who enjoy one platform don't typically enjoy the other because it's not one specific thing about the product they enjoy or don't enjoy it's all the systems that form the big machine that they enjoy

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