There won't even be an election to run in at this rate : mop

[-] _stranger_@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I feel like there's a misunderstanding here.

When people say "vote blue no matter who" picture Richard Simmons saying "Love yourself, move your body, watch your portions".

It's a call for everyone to engage in minimum viable action.

If you're completely politically unmotivated, don't care, couldn't be bothered, at the very least get your ass up and go vote for a Democrat.

If you're more involved, more informed, more active than that, well, then that advice isn't for you, just like people who spend 8 hours at the gym don't generally need advice from Richard Simmons.

AND YES: If you know people who need advice like "At least walk. Like, literally just get up and do a jumping jack for crying out loud", understand that info dumps about 'theory' are only going to stuff them further into the couch

[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Naw dawg. Catch me not doing anything for 4 years and then choosing not to vote against someone who will do more of the same stuff that the Trump admin is currently doing while insisting that my vote doesn't matter so it's everyone else's fault.

[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 days ago

I'm placing bet now. If things get better, guillotine or equivalent will end up being the solution after everything else fails in one way or another.

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 2 points 4 days ago

Safe bet.

[-] Tempus_Fugit@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

I see many in here are willing to capitulate to their corporate masters. I don't think that's a good idea personally, but that's supposedly our right. I won't be voting for any liberals or Zionists in the near future. It's up to them to persuade me and fear isn't going to cut it.

The options are to get crushed by an open fascist whose lies I can see through like glass, or get crushed by the closet fascists that promises the world and delivers only shit. I'd feel gross voting for either, but I hate being taken for a ride.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Spoiler Alert: A 3rd party candidate will not win in the United States, probably in your lifetime. Probably not in your kid's lifetime either.

It is your right to choose to ignore reality if that's what you want. There will be repercussions (even more).

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 4 days ago

This is an argument for why the Democrats need to figure out how to select candidates that appeal to Americans instead of just Israel and their corporate donors.

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

[-] Tempus_Fugit@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

Not much of a spoiler when I already know the outcome. That doesn't mean I should still choose evil. I guess I'll keep losing, oh well, that's all I've ever known politically, so I'm quite used to it now.

[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 1 points 4 days ago

Sounds like they will have to earn their vote than.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 5 points 4 days ago

Or, as an adult, you can do what I did and vote for the candidate least likely to send completely unaccountable masked federal goons into American cities to terrorize and execute American citizens.

Sometimes it's less about someone winning you over, and more about adulting up and doing the right thing.

[-] pucker4676@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago

Both candidates will be terrorizing people. Terrorizing anyone is unacceptable.

[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

"Adulting is perpetuating a bad system that is getting worse each year, for fear it could get worse at a faster rate"

Doesn't help though does it? How about adulting is realising that democracy cannot function like that and you will end up in the exact same situation a few more years down the line if you keep doing nothing. Do you want to fix the issue or push it down the line for someone else?

And let's not get started on the completely unaccountable unmasked federal and state goons who have been in American cities forever who terrorise and execute American minority citizens. It took 2 white people being killed by ICE for Americans to start giving a fuck.

[-] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

“Adulting is perpetuating a bad system that is getting worse each year, for fear it could get worse at a faster rate”

No, adulting is ensuring the train doesn't come completely off the tracks while you work to reform what's already entrenched and not going anywhere. And in case you aren't aware of what happens when things go really off the tracks, you can see footage of other parts of the world where it's happened. It isn't pretty.

Your problem is you see this as a black and white issue. A complete destruction of what exists in order to rebuild. You don't seem to grasp that, unless you personally lead a successful revolution (you aren't), the most realistic option is to reform the only viable non-fascist party available to us. Because that is way, way, way more possible than wiping it all and starting over.

Let me ask you a question. In the reality in which we do, in fact, live....what exactly do you think voting 3rd party for a presidential candidate is going to do? Do you incorrectly believe a 3rd party candidate actually stands a chance of winning despite the 3rd party candidate with the most votes in 2024 only receiving 0.5% of the total votes cast? Cuz if the Dems don't "woo" you, then you're either voting 3rd party or not voting at all, both of which accomplish nothing.

Now, I'm not trying to knock voting 3rd party in local/state elections. That's literally the only way a 3rd party could ever possibly stand a chance of winning the presidency or a majority in either chamber of Congress at some point in the distant future. But there is literally no way, in reality, that is happening by 2028. No 3rd party even has a single member in Congress. So if that's the path you choose to take, you will absolutely protest vote until your right to vote is gone. Because fascists don't like democracy. They don't like voting.

So it really confuses me that someone can look around and see what's happening, that myself and a ton of other people warned would happen, and STILL think it's wise to shit on your vote with a 3rd party or not vote at all knowing it'll only make the situation worse.

Sometimes it's more important to acknowlege that you don't like the train you're on, but it serves yourself and others to help keep it from derailing. Especially if after you save the train you still have the possibility of voting to swap out cars on that train to make it a better train.

I really don't know how to make a simpler analogy.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 days ago

Evolution is fun how it's not immediate.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 38 points 4 days ago

I know exactly zero people who are interested in Gavin Newsom for president. Also, how about we focus on the next election instead of the one almost 3 years away?

[-] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 4 days ago

How about focusing on fighting Trump and not elections?

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 20 points 4 days ago

You can do more than one thing at a time.

Planning around the upcoming elections is part of the fight.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 days ago

It's a lot easier to fight the president when he has fewer sycophants in Congress.

[-] unrealMinotaur@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 days ago

Apologies for being uninformed, can someone send some information about what he has done wrong. (I don't pay attention to california politics)

[-] JeSuisUnHombre@lemmy.zip 31 points 4 days ago

He's extremely willing to cave to the right and will run a centrist campaign to appeal to them while ignoring the success of someone like Mamdani who gets broad support for having a spine

[-] Taldan@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

Mamdani has a spine, but I think most of his support comes from not being a corporatist

It's part of why Trump got so much support, from such an unusual coalition. People, incorrectly, believed he would be anti-corporate and for the people. I can't personally understand why people thought a billionaire* real estate mogul would be anti-corporate, but here we are

[-] Tippy@sh.itjust.works 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Newsom has a history of using transphobic language and stances, has removed funding from LGBTQ+ organizations in California, has been spearheading the destruction of homeless camps without any alternatives for the people impacted, came out in support of Israel "defending itself", and has hosted multiple right wing christo-nationalists on his podcast. When kirk was killed, he immediately posted in support of him and his family and said nothing about a school shooting that occurred on the same day. A few months ago on bluesky he casually posted about how after Trump deployed armed forces to CA, he's since been using the NG himself to do drug interdiction operations within the state.

Gavin Newsom is an opportunist, simple as. He does not care about the working class or stopping fascism, just making sure he gets ahead himself. His interns might be memeing on Trump on Twitter to appease his base, but he's been pushing moderate and right wing policies increasingly in response to the Trump regime gaining traction. He sees the writing on the wall and wants to position himself for upcoming elections as a good option for disenfranchised right wingers and centrists, and doesn't care if he throws people on the left under the bus to do it.

Edit: Just to get ahead of the inevitable, I am a leftist who voted for Harris, and would vote for Newsom if forced to by the DNC. Not because I think either of them deserve any ounce of power over this nation, but solely because FPTP voting fucks over voters and forces people like me to pick the "not outwardly fascist" option. Our best course of action is to support progressive candidates so we won't have corporate center right posers forced on us in the first place.

[-] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

He also likes to carve out loopholes so he and his friends can still make lots of money (see the bread exception in Ca's minimum wage law)

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 days ago

Leftists are unhappy with anything that‘s not a socialist revolution exactly according to their ideology.

[-] calliope@retrolemmy.com 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Seriously, the above image is literally the reason the U.S. has Trump twice now. Delusional people genuinely don’t understand the world.

“Don’t vote Harris! She’s just as bad!”
“I hate Hillary Clinton though”

Congrats, this is your fault.

I will vote against Trump, even if it’s Gavin Newsom. If you don’t you’re a fucking moron.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 14 points 4 days ago

You understand that people can vote against Trump and also think that it's a good idea to actually run decent candidates to oppose him, right?

[-] 13igTyme@piefed.social 8 points 4 days ago

The person you replied to absolutely understands that. What ends up happening is dumb leftist not voting for anyone because their candidate isn't perfect to their definition.

I say dumb, because I would describe myself as a leftist progressive, but I actually vote.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 5 points 4 days ago

Sure, but is that a thing that actually happened or it is just a rhetorical device that people trot out to shut down any discussion of moving the Democratic party in the "wrong" direction?

Like we SHOULD be able to talk about why the DNC ran a really unappealing candidate and why their positions were unpopular without that discussion being. "So I GuESS yoU LoVe TRumP huh?"

A party that cannot analyze or even ADMIT to their own failure isn't one that is trying to win.

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 7 points 4 days ago

Everyone who voted for the Green Party were well aware that the intention was a Trump win and a Harris loss. Their people literally said as much.

Was it enough to cause a Harris loss? I don't know. I don't have enough information to know how many voters were discouraged. There were absolutely a ton of people on Lemmy talking about how the only "good" vote was a vote against Harris though.

So it is a problem. Just the matter of degree is unknown.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 3 points 4 days ago

So your conclusion is that people not voting for Harris has absolutely nothing to do with Harris actual position on the issues or her suitability as a candidate? The tiny fraction of people that voted for someone else while somehow not wanting Trump to win is the real problem, not bad democratic candidates? You think that approach is going to accomplish anything apart from continuing to lose elections?

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 2 points 4 days ago

I don't believe I said any such thing, so I would appreciate you not implying that I did.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago

Oh sorry, I assumed you were making a substantive reply that merited a response. Feel free to fuck off then.

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I replied to a specific comment with a specific reply about a specific issue, as the only comment by me in this chain.

You have chosen to apply some unrelated commentary to my response, tried to put words in my mouth, and then behaved like a jackass in your reply to me.

If thats the kind of person you are, then I'll happily add you to my block list and move on with my day.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 2 points 4 days ago

What I find fascinating about people like you is that you take the position that extremist inflexible positions on Gaza are why Harris lost the election, but when pressed it always turns out that you view the extremist position as being OPPOSED to genocide.

If you want to blame an insane position on Gaza for Harris losing the election, why don't you blame the Democratic candidate who decided to firmly take a position on Gaza that mirrored fucking Donald Trump?

[-] curbstickle@anarchist.nexus 0 points 4 days ago

What I find fascinating is my comment included nothing of the sort.

So my previous statement is confirmed, thats exactly the type of person you are.

Goodbye.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I know, you have no intention of taking a substantive position on anything apart from hearing yourself talk. You are an empty vessel. My comment was for everyone else. ;-)

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 days ago

The term „genocide Joe“ targeting Joe Biden is a good example of this as well.

The American political system has successfully sidelined the left. The educated managerial class progressive left dominates left discourse with victim Olympics, complex and ever changing rules on language use, identity politics, moral purity testing. The (unionized) working class and petit bourgeoisie feels disregarded and vote MAGA. Both hurt Democrat success in elections.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago

I find it fascinating that people like you think that it is the people who OPPOSED the genocide in Gaza that have the extreme position and not the the democratic candidate for president mirroring Donald Trumps position.

I agree that an insane position on Gaza is why Harris lost. So I guess the question to ask is why did Harris TAKE an insane position on Gaza?

[-] Taldan@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago

I don't want another centrist candidate. A lot of people share that view. Everyone knows a lot of people don't want another centrist. The current political landscape clearly favors a progressive candidate like Mamdani, Bernie, or AOC

We're years away from the election. Election results are good for progressives that focus on fixing real issues the average American experiences. Centrist Democrats have been performing poorly

If the DNC pushes Newsom in 2028 and he loses, it will squarely be the fault of the DNC. Voter preferences are clear, just as they were in 2024 and 2016

At some point we have to admit the candidates pushed by the DNC were unpopular. They lost because no one wanted them. The DNC preferred a Trump presidency over a progressive Democrat

"Vote blue no matter who" does not work. Democrats lost in both 2016 and 2024 against one of the worst candidates in presidential history because the DNC did a poor job. It's the DNC you should be upset with, not the people who got sick of pinching their nose to vote

I voted against Trump 3 elections in a row. I'm fucking sick and tired of having to vote for pro-corporate Democrats. I didn't feel any of them had my interests in mind

[-] Taldan@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago

Are Bernie and Mamdani a "socialist revolution"? Because I'm quite happy with both of them as politicians. Then again I'm also happy with Tim Walz. Weird how all 3 of those are supposedly socialist revolutions despite having such different policies

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 8 points 4 days ago

So therefore the only thing we can do is elect bigot conservatives? How is that working out so far?

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works -1 points 4 days ago

This black and white thinking only makes you feel morally superior, but doesn’t actually change anything.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 8 points 4 days ago

Really? Cause I am the one suggesting that maybe we do something that we haven't done in 20 years, which is to run a candidate that ISN'T a corporate conservative democrat. And I am suggesting that we do it with a solid couple of years available to really make sure we do it right.

How is advocating to keep doing the same failed tactic over and over again the position that is going to "change" things?

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works -2 points 4 days ago

So far you haven’t suggested to do anything, only criticized.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 7 points 4 days ago

Really? Cause I am pretty sure I made a pretty clear suggestion. Oddly, you are the person who has contributed nothing but criticism in this discussion. Are you capable of actually suggesting something or can you only bitch and moan about what other people say?

Memes of Production