The countries I know of where employers have decent vacation etc and don't hate the employers, all have strong unions.

If unions doesn't work, then maybe you are doing it wrong.

They call them self a union but it's more of a guild.

When I talk to people they seem most upset that unions don't work for them. They feel a part of something so large that it doesn't care about them.

People aren’t opposed to unions because they think unions aren’t powerful, they’re opposed to unions because they’re powerful.

People parroting this are falling for the capitalist propaganda. Unions work so well that the ruling class has employed a mass campaign against unions. That isn't weakness.

We the working class keep our society running, we can shut our society down, and this scares the shit out of the ruling classes who while wealthy in assets, are weak in number.

Unions work depending on how 'in it together' you feel.

If you resent the people standing around doing nothing they start to fail. If you resent the people who do worse work than you for the same pay they start to fail. note that on an assembly line the above isn't possible in the first place - which is why they work great there. (Bus drivers and police are also not really measureable like that)

Unions aren't possible at my company.

1/3 speaks Spanish, 1/3 speaks some African dialect only they understand, and the other 1/3 speak english, and the entire culture aims eachother's hate at eachother.

This is America.

Ashley Furniture btw. Full on bodyslam under the bus.

In a capitalist world unions will always exist because there will never be any laws to protect the producer of capital (the worker). Imagine how much union dues could go back into the worker's pocket if they were protected by their government?

i dont think police unions count, they are gang/mafia that can browbeat a city to giving what it wants(they can refuse to actual do anything about specific crimes if they so chose), its fully supported by the gop and dnc, because they can use to keep the general population at arms length. it was discussed many times on subs, how they arnt like voted on or have grassroots upbringing.

The only issue with Unions is a corporate system that has spent decades on a campaign of misinformation and vilification.

Never forget that its unions that gave you a five day work week, 8 hour days, and child labour laws.

Nothing is given by a corporation out of the kindness of their heart. And nothing makes them more gleeful than listening to people repeat their anti-union screed.

What other unions protect their members from murder charges?

This is true, though police unions typically leverage the "fuck you all" nature of being a union, that Dems won't touch, and being police, that the GOP won't touch. So no one stops policies that give wacky amounts of leave.

BINGO!

When workers unions are in arms, they are very effective too

And they only got there by striking and work actions because the nature of their positions gave them the leverage needed to be effective. The NYPD can't ship the factory to another country or bring in immigrant labour to do policing. If they aren't policing, property rights won't be enforced for businesses. Leverage. The police are the mechanism that break labour strikes and protests on behalf of capital. There is no such mechanism to break a police strike or protest, except the feds or the military which won't be used.

Most labour jobs do not have this kind of leverage because technology shrank the world and business has negotiated trade deal that give them the freedom to undermine worker leverage. Workers have no leverage to force capitulation. Labour has long lost any control they had to influence business practices and fight for themselves. Labour actions would have to be across the entire company to effectively force capitulation and that is next to impossible because labour ain't a community anymore thanks to anti-commie fear mongering. Every union is isolated, every location is separated, every company the corporate owns is independent from each other. Labour is too divided to stand united and united is the only way it effectively works. A group can't fight individual power with individual power, it must fight with collective power and for that, it needs to be united first.

Union doesn't work because there is so much competition in my country that anybody going out of line will be replaced

Are you going to argue that police unions are a net good? They are the reason we have impenetrable qualifed immunity for even ridiculously egregious misconduct and any time a cop is shown to actually go over the absurdly strict line of what they can be held legally accountable for, the unions protect them at all costs. The reason criminal cops can just get hired at any other PD and their past is covered up/ignored is the police unions. I’m not saying they don’t do good things, but the bad they do is way too much to overlook.

With the legal authority police have, they need to be held to higher standards than the average person, instead the unions voraciously fight to ensure there are virtually zero standards for police conduct.

All unions should carry guns and exercise lethal force on a daily basis.