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SECRETARY OF DEFENSE Pete Hegseth is under increasing fire for a double-tap strike, first reported by The Intercept in early September, in which the U.S. military killed two survivors of the Trump administration’s initial boat strike in the Caribbean on September 2.

The Washington Post recently reported that Hegseth personally ordered the follow-up attack, giving a spoken order “to kill everybody.” Multiple military legal experts, lawmakers, and now confidential sources within the government who spoke with The Intercept say Hegseth’s actions could result in the entire chain of command being investigated for a war crime or outright murder.

“Those directly involved in the strike could be charged with murder under the UCMJ or federal law,” said Todd Huntley, a former Staff Judge Advocate who served as a legal adviser on Joint Special Operations task forces conducting drone strikes in Afghanistan and elsewhere, using shorthand for the Uniform Code of Military Justice. “This is about as clear of a case being patently illegal that subordinates would probably not be able to successfully use a following-orders defense.”

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[-] falseWhite@lemmy.world 200 points 2 months ago

100% nothing will happen, or they will just get pardoned. USA is done. Kaput. All hail Nazi USA.

[-] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 75 points 2 months ago

Fairly sure the pardons are already filled out and signed preemptively.

[-] Zachariah@lemmy.world 58 points 2 months ago
[-] frunch@lemmy.world 51 points 2 months ago

Ooh ooh how bout an autopen!

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 45 points 2 months ago

with fascists, every accusation is an admission

[-] rayyy@piefed.social 30 points 2 months ago

with fascists, every accusation is an admission

Once again, A LITTLE LOUDER FOR THE DOLTS IN THE BACK OF THE ROOM.

When dealing with fascists and Republicans - they are the same but Republicans have less scruples and more money -

"EVERY ACCUSATION IS AN ADMISSION."

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[-] WizardofFrobozz@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It’s fucking comical how many Americans seem to think that the collapse of their entire legal system is just a blip and there’s a “normal” to go back to.

It’s a bit like going to see a magician- if you catch a glimpse of how the trick is done, the spell is broken. There’s no going back. Everyone is now fully aware that accountability only exists because of shared suspension of disbelief that it might not. A new administration doesn’t fix this. Your constitution and legislation has been fully exposed as lacking enforcement measures. There isn’t any coming back from that, regardless of who’s in the big chair.

[-] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's already been collapsed for years though. Normal people don't even get trials anymore. We get outrageously high bail amounts and plea-bargains (forced confessions, that's what they are) so we will spend 2 years in prison instead of 5 awaiting trial.

Want to prove your innocence even if it means spending years in pretrial jail? Guess what? They'll end up dismissing the charges a week before your trial starts because they don't think they'll get a conviction. You're not officially acquitted so the prosecutor's success rate stays high AND you still were imprisoned for years so it's a win-win for them.

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[-] Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 148 points 2 months ago

This is actually the example they use of an illegal order in the DOD manual.

Page 1117 18.3.2.1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23892053-dod-law-of-war-manual-june-2015-updated-july-2023/

[-] neighbourbehaviour@lemmy.world 27 points 2 months ago
[-] khepri@lemmy.world 21 points 2 months ago

This should be top of the thread everywhere this story is mentioned, forever.

[-] Cricket@lemmy.zip 20 points 2 months ago

Holy moly, all that's left to do is to add a picture of Hegseth and of the exploded boat to illustrate this paragraph. SMH.

[-] lando55@lemmy.zip 17 points 2 months ago

Today I learned the word tragicomical

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[-] stupe@lemmy.zip 45 points 2 months ago

They could be, but they won't.

[-] cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 2 months ago

Won't matter if they're held liable by US law.

We need justice that is not beholden to any king or emperor (or would-be whatever). International courts should rule on this. Because local ones won't do anything.

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[-] flandish@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago

good. prison for all of them. genocidal nazis all of them. from the leader to the guy who pushed the button.

ILLEGAL ORDERS MUST BE IGNORED.

[-] dhork@lemmy.world 33 points 2 months ago
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[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago
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[-] bold_atlas@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Just like the Jan 6 hearings, they will drag it out for political points, but have no intention to seek actual charges, institutional change, military reform or anything.

It will just be: "Look at all the evil shit they did! Don't you wish something could be done! Oh well. Also Maduro bad m'kay, drugs bad m'kay, Hamas bad m'kay, we love troops m'kay. Hearing adjourned!"

[-] psycho_driver@lemmy.world 24 points 2 months ago

Could be, but won't. At least, not under this regime.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Head of the U.S. Military’s Southern Command Is Stepping Down, Officials Say. Adm. Alvin Holsey is leaving less than a year into his tenure, and as the Pentagon escalates attacks against boats in the Caribbean Sea.

Maybe its ethics. Maybe some folks in the chain of command have the fear of God in them. Maybe there's just better pay in the private sector and now is as good a time as any to cash out. But I suspect stories like this are going to be increasingly common in the run up to the '26 election.

Future President Pete Buttigieg will have a cabinet full of people who drew the line at double-tapping a Venezuelan fisherman. And they'll be spearheading our next Great Ethical War with... idk, Argentina or South Africa or something.

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[-] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 months ago

Spoiler: they won't.

[-] demizerone@lemmy.world 22 points 2 months ago

Y'all mother fuckers ebeying in advance. These assholes will be held accountable. Call your representatives! Don't assume their power is so great because it's not!

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[-] Wilco@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 months ago

He is a murderer... all of them are.

[-] SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 21 points 2 months ago

Could be, should be, won't be

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[-] evenglow@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

"Respect the chain of command." - Babylon 5 TV show

Same thing Democrats said recently. Same thing Milley said last time Trump put soldiers on streets years ago. Back then Trump also said Milley should be hanged for saying it.

[-] ProfThadBach@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

I love B5 and while the show might look a bit dated now the message sure as fuck is not.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

That would require the administration's own people to bring those charges.

And I can already tell you the words you're going to hear if this makes it to court. "Unlawful Combatant", a designation we created so we could ignore the rules of war while fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq. Trump declared the Venezuelan drug cartels to be terrorists. Now they're treating them like we treated the Taliban in Afghanistan.

These guys are literally just waiting for the next outrageous thing to push this one out of the news cycle.

And yeah, we've been doing airstrikes like this for 20 years.

[-] MisterOwl@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago

Could.

But won't.

[-] d00phy@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

… As they should.

… But they won’t.

[-] blargle@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 months ago

Could is not news. Ever.

[-] pleasejustdie@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I worked at Fort Lewis in the RCF (Regional Correctional Facility, aka prison) and we had an Army soldier who got 3 years for 1st degree murder because he mercy killed a combatant after they got covered in white phosphorous. Literally everyone was like "how the fuck do you only get 3 years for first degree murder?" and then when they read his court documents were like "what the fuck, you got screwed and obviously everyone knew it..." They legally determined that at the moment they were no longer fighting back they became non-combatants and to kill a non-combatant instead of rendering aid is murder. Since the judge and jury agreed that it did violate the law, but hoped that if they were ever in that combatant's shoes, they would want someone to do to them what this soldier did, so yeah, guilty, but sentenced to the bare minimum allowed.

I know for 100% fact there is precedent already. But that is rules for thee, not for them, so I highly doubt we'll see anything happen. I'm sure they'll claim they need immunity because they were operating under special rules of engagement or some bullshit, and it will take years and lots of lawyers and in the end it'll drag on until its forgotten about and gets quietly dismissed somewhere.

[-] tomi000@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

"held liable" means some bad press in 'radical left' media at this point, right?

[-] Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 months ago

Which means, as the law is being followed in the US right now, only the plebs at the bottom might be held responsible.

[-] yeather@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago

50/50 they pardon everyone or Trump uses this opportunity to forcefully retire more generals and get Hegseth out.

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 2 months ago

What absolute moron would obey that order?

I could see how maybe you could believe there was justification for the initial strike but there can be no justification for killing people who are now defenceless. Although why not just board the vessel and take everyone into custody, why instantly resort to deadly force, did they have information that the people on the boat were heavily armed or otherwise able to threaten a US naval vessel?

[-] notgivingmynametoamachine@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I won’t claim to have researched it myself, but I’ve seen about a dozen different people quote the section of military law that talks about illegal orders that are so blatant you don’t need to check or think, they’re illegal, and the example they use is “firing upon the shipwrecked”.

As in, the order to fire upon the shipwrecked should be immediately known to every Navy personnel as blatantly illegal as a precondition of their service.

If you’re performing the example for an illegal order, you’re executing illegal orders.

Edit: and I’m realizing now I responded to the wrong person.

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[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 months ago

Sure, sure, right after we convict Bush, Rice et al., for their war crimes in Iraq.

[-] xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 11 points 2 months ago

That's what should happen, but I won't be holding my breath.

[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

And they should be, MAGA is a terrorist organization

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

See that’s why they make everyone pull the trigger when they commit murder. Now they’re all complicit, and they have to work for trump and keep him in power. Because if someone with a spine that actually follows the law and constitution gets into office they will face court-martial.

But we all know that they’ll just get raked over the coals by some committee and told to retire, if that, should a dem take office.

[-] apftwb@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago

Does being convicted of a war crime or murder make you ineligible to be Secretary of Defense?

[-] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago

Exactly the same amount as being a 34 time convicted felon makes you ineligible to be president

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this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2025
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