this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023

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Harvard students scramble to take back support for letter attacking Israel as some CEOs look to blacklist them (nypost.com)

submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

How dare Hamas act out of desperation from the largest open air prison on Earth?!

Writing strongly worded letters for 100 years while they were systematically deprived of basic resources, or mass voluntary Palestinian suicide because the world clearly doesn't value their lives, are their only acceptable options!

In all seriousness though. You live in squalor, your children starve, and you see the children of your oppressors who actively stop resources from getting to your children having a lavish party. Do you just tell your children to die quietly so as not to disturb their children's lavish party?

When you forcibly remove hope, vengeance becomes an intoxicating alternative.

For the record, I think both societies are are backwards and built on savagery and ignorance, because both are willing to die, to deny rights to, and to kill REAL PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY EXIST for their equally moronic imaginary friends.

Fuck organized religion. No amount of conditionial soup is worth this never ending murderous cycle of bullshit. No rational person cares if you want to pray to Pikachu at 2am every morning standing on one foot, stop making your rituals and superstitious nonsense other people's problems.

[+] [email protected] -13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Quite disappointing to see kbin users attempt to justify

a military blockade of people who use every weapon they can get to try to kill your civilians, and try to turn every resource they can get into weapons, is not "an open air prison." There are thousands of Gazans entering Israel every day due to Israeli work permits, medical treatments, refuge for gay people in Gaza (who are executed by Hamas). All in all, about 575,000 Gazans exited Gaza in 2022 by land borders, mostly through Israel since Egypt is generally fairly opposed to Gazans coming into Egypt. They won't let refugees into Sinai now.

The heads of Hamas are billionaires and live in Qatar. They take every bit of aid that comes in and use it to perpetuate terrorism. The blockade didn't start until about six years after rocket fire, until after Israel left Gaza. Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005.

This whole "open air prison" thing is ridiculous. There's border enforcement because they use those borders to kill people. Israel controls their air space because they kill people by air. Israel doesn't like the terror tunnels because the terror tunnels are used to send terrorists in to kill people. If they want to be able to move freely, they should stop killing people in the places they want to move to.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

a military blockade of people who use every weapon they can get to try to kill your civilians

I mean that's just untrue, even accounting for the recent violence Israel has killed many times more civilians than Palestinians.

"According to the United Nations, roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis had been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities"

is not "an open air prison." There are thousands of Gazans entering Israel every day due to Israeli work permits, medical treatments,

My man, that's not the brag you think it is. Allowing people to leave gaza to have their labour exploited isn't alien to prison systems, nor is administering medical care.

The heads of Hamas are billionaires and live in Qatar. They take every bit of aid that comes in and use it to perpetuate terrorism. The blockade didn't start until about six years after rocket fire, until after Israel left Gaza. Gaza hasn't been occupied since 2005.

And I don't really think many people are too concerned about protecting Hamas, they just don't want to be witness to a genocide because Israel conflates their actions with all of Palestine.

This whole "open air prison" thing is ridiculous. There's border enforcement because they use those borders to kill people.

I'm sorry, but if your country has killed thousands of people along that border compared to hundreds.....then it's not the Palestinians who are utilizing the border as a weapon.

You haven't even established that the border has helped reduce the amount of people killed. If anything this week has showed us that militarized borders don't really do much but provoke violence.

Israel controls their air space because they kill people by air.

With what Air Force?

Look, I don't think any reasonable person condones the slaying of civilians. That being said, I think the hamas attack was a foreseeable consequence of political blowback. The Israeli government has become increasingly right winged over the last decade, and have been advocating for human rights violations, the illegal colonization of homes, and have literally instituted an apartheid state.

It's foolish to think that there wouldn't be a violent reaction when Israel has rejected all other forms of discord. Apartheid states will always create violence, the only people whom can prevent it are the ones who can end the apartheid.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean that’s just untrue, even accounting for the recent violence Israel has killed many times more civilians than Palestinians.

“According to the United Nations, roughly 6,400 Palestinians and 300 Israelis had been killed in the ongoing conflict since 2008, not counting the recent fatalities”

I'm sorry, did you read the sentence that you're saying is untrue? Because... you didn't address my claim at all.

My man, that’s not the brag you think it is. Allowing people to leave gaza to have their labour exploited isn’t alien to prison systems, nor is administering medical care.

leaving is pretty alien to prison systems. People in prisons are supposed to be locked inside. There are supposed to be guards in there with them 24/7. And prisons don't have borders with multiple countries.

I guess it's like a prison in that a gang runs the place, but unlike a prison in that, in prison, the gang doesn't take control of the food distribution and steal all the concrete that could be used for concrete, and use it instead to build tunnels that they use to murder outside civilians before coming back home to their prison. And the prison gangs usually aren't run by billionaires living in Qatar.

And I've never heard of prisoners beheading babies before. I've never heard of anyone beheading babies before. It's kind of, you know, totally unprecedented.

And I don’t really think many people are too concerned about protecting Hamas, they just don’t want to be witness to a genocide because Israel conflates their actions with all of Palestine.

I've seen a lot of people celebrating these attacks. I've seen people in Manhattan waving swastikas around at a "pro-Palestinian" rally, before Israel's reprisals began. I've seen people in London vandalize Jewish neighborhoods, breaking windows and spraying graffiti. I've seen people in Brooklyn protest a memorial by saying that the violence against civilians was justified. At a memorial service. They couldn't let people mourn? Mia Khalifa's biggest problem with the attack on Israel was that the video was in portrait mode and not landscape, otherwise she was having a blast.

They don't give a shit about Palestinians. They just want to see Jews suffer.

With what Air Force?

With fucking hang gliders, if they can.

It's usually more of an issue of Iran dropping weapons in by air.

That being said, I think the hamas attack was a foreseeable consequence of political blowback.

It's pretty sick to call beheadding babies as "foreseeable," isn't it? Did you actually see that coming, that they would behead babies?

It’s foolish to think that there wouldn’t be a violent reaction when Israel has rejected all other forms of discord.

I think you mean "discourse." I guess you've never heard of the Olmert deal?

Hamas controls the majority of the PA legislature. Abbas didn't accept the Olmert deal because he doesn't have enough political clout to do it.

Hamas, in its charter, explicitly refuses any prospect of negotiation or peace. They explicitly want to destroy every Jew on the face of the earth, not just Israelis.

Israel still comes to the table with Abbas, but it does not have a realistic partner for peace.

Netanyahu is also a dick, though. I really wish Olmert and Abbas figured it out...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry, did you read the sentence that you're saying is untrue? Because... you didn't address my claim at all.

That they were trying to turn anything they could into a weapon to kill civilians...... and all they could possibly do is kill 300 in over ten years while taking thousands of civilian casualties. Doesnt really add up to the picture you were trying to paint.

leaving is pretty alien to prison systems. People in prisons are supposed to be locked inside. There are supposed to be guards in there with them 24/7. And prisons don't have borders with multiple countries.

There are work release programs in most all major prison systems...... and your other rebuttals are purely pedantic. There are several types of penal systems, some just ship people to remote islands....they are still prisons.

I guess it's like a prison in that a gang runs the place, but unlike a prison in that, in prison, the gang doesn't take control of the food distribution and steal all the concrete that could be used for concrete, and use it instead to build tunnels that they use to murder outside civilians before coming back home to their prison. And the prison gangs usually aren't run by billionaires living in Qatar.

It's almost like the Israeli government doesn't care what happens to the people in their prison...... very perplexing.

And I've never heard of prisoners beheading babies before. I've never heard of anyone beheading babies before. It's kind of, you know, totally unprecedented.

You must not read a lot of history...... there was once an ethnocentric theocracy by the name of imperial Japan that did some stuff in China a while ago..... also, do you have any evidence of this actually occurring?

I've seen a lot of people celebrating these attacks. I've seen people in Manhattan waving swastikas around at a "pro-Palestinian" rally, before Israel's reprisals began. I've seen people in London vandalize Jewish neighborhoods, breaking windows and spraying graffiti. I've seen people in Brooklyn protest a memorial by saying that the violence against civilians was justified.

And you think neonazi are reasonable people?

They don't give a shit about Palestinians. They just want to see Jews suffer.

Ahh yes, everyone who disagrees with the Israeli state hates Jewish people....... no way people could just want an end to an apartheid state.

With fucking hang gliders, if they can.

And controlling there airspace prevents this how?

t's usually more of an issue of Iran dropping weapons in by air.

Ahh so the Iranians are Palestinians now...... how would controlling the air space east of Israel prevent Iran, a country west of Israel from dropping bombs? Controlling their airspace is just another way to control the flow of vital goods.

It's pretty sick to call beheadding babies as "foreseeable," isn't it? Did you actually see that coming, that they would behead babies?

Yeah, beheading a baby and airstriking a baby both end with two dead children. Also.... what evidence do you have that babies have been decapitated? We've seen this or things similar to this be falsely broadcasted to justify war in our lifetime.

think you mean "discourse."

Discord isnt just Skype for gaming, it means argument or disagreement. Israel has rejected all other form of argument, and thus there will be violence.

I guess you've never heard of the Olmert deal?

Lol, a deal implies two willing parties. The realignment plan was a unilateral border change where Israel attemped to legalize their illegal settlements by claiming they'd disengage from the West Bank.

The problem is that nothing is stopping someone making unilateral policy from changing that policy as they see fit. Within the span of year it went from disengaging from 90% of the West Bank to 70% of the West Bank. Why would the Palestinians agree to signing something like that when Israel has already been so keen on breaking international law?

Netanyahu is also a dick, though. I really wish Olmert and Abbas figured it out...

Yes, and terrifyingly he's been your PM six times....... over a decade and a half of creating the perfect environment for extremism.

I don't hate Jewish people, I'm not a white supremacy nut, both would be odd for an Asian person. As a person who's home country has a history of border conflicts, crimes against humanity, and fascist governments, I don't think your people are going to look back with any pride for what is going to unfold in the next few months.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That they were trying to turn anything they could into a weapon to kill civilians… and all they could possibly do is kill 300 in over ten years while taking thousands of civilian casualties. Doesnt really add up to the picture you were trying to paint.

... because of the blockade, and the iron dome, and the IDF in general. I'm sorry Israel is good at defending itself.

... and because Hamas was specifically holding off for this one planned, concerted attack, with missiles saved up, which explains why they didn't join the Islamic Jihad attack or anything.

... and they killed more than 300, you're only counting the Israelis they killed, not the Palestinians they killed. 25% of their rockets land in Gaza, they're not exactly careful aiming them.

It’s almost like the Israeli government doesn’t care what happens to the people in their prison… very perplexing.

It's almost like the Palestinian government doesn't care. Or like they do care, and they want nothing more for them than martyrdom.

Israel continues to give all this aid even though Hamas is controlling its distribution. What would you prefer they do? re-occupy Gaza and deliver aid individually?

You must not read a lot of history… there was once an ethnocentric theocracy by the name of imperial Japan that did some stuff in China a while ago…

I was not aware that they beheaded babies. I'm aware of the conflict, and the rape of Nanking, and the general attrocity and animosity there, but no, I have not read that they beheaded babies, forgive me.

also, do you have any evidence of this actually occurring?

Multiple eyewitness reports reported by multiple reporters + the president of the united states confirming it, but I'm sure you won't be satisfied until you see Hamas post photos to facebook, huh?

here's another source.

Ahh yes, everyone who disagrees with the Israeli state hates Jewish people…

I'm sick of this bullshit. Hamas explicitly calls for the extermination of all Jews in its charter, not just the ones in Israel.

I did not say that everyone who disagrees is an antisemite. I said that the terrorists who openly and proudly hate Jews are antisemites, and the heartless bastards who celebrate that terrorism, who watch on with popcorn while innocent Jewish civilians die are antisemites.

no way people could just want an end to an apartheid state.

Israel is the only state in the middle east with any semblance of equality—with complete equality, until the current Israeli government—based on race or religion, but let's stop and pretend it was an Apartheid state, and let's say that all people want is to end it.

So they see soldiers parading teenage girls in the streets. They see their blood-stained sweatpants, they know she just got raped. They hear that (then) hundreds of Israeli civilians are dead. They see a music festival get massacred.

Do you think they really think this is going to end Israel? Do you really think they're that stupid?

Hamas does not want to end Israel. Hamas wants to kill Jews, provoke war, and maintain its stranglehold over Gaza. Hamas cannot exist with peace. They were afraid the Saudis might try to broker peace, or that the Israelis would vote Netanyahu out, or something might happen to make peace more plausible, and they had to stop that.

All this attack was meant to do is kill Jews and provoke a war. Nobody is stupid enough to think they're about to end Israel.

(this comment is apparently too long...)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago

Ahh so the Iranians are Palestinians now… how would controlling the air space east of Israel prevent Iran, a country west of Israel from dropping bombs? Controlling their airspace is just another way to control the flow of vital goods.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Iran drops weapons in Gaza. Iran delivers weapons to Gaza. They're not dropping bombs, they're delivering weapons, that's why I said that they were delivering weapons, and not that they were dropping bombs.

Yeah, beheading a baby and airstriking a baby both end with two dead children. Also… what evidence do you have that babies have been decapitated? We’ve seen this or things similar to this be falsely broadcasted to justify war in our lifetime.

I supplied plenty of evidence above.

Hamas targets babies and cuts their heads off point blank.

Hamas fires rockets from a building, Israel targets the building, Israel warns the people in it, and Hamas refuses to evacuate babies, because they know dead babies help draw sympathy and perpetuate the conflict.

These are both tragedies. They are not the same.

Discord isnt just Skype for gaming, it means argument or disagreement. Israel has rejected all other form of argument, and thus there will be violence.

lol, so you said:

It’s foolish to think that there wouldn’t be a violent reaction when Israel has rejected all other forms of discord.

and you meant:

Israel refuses to disagree! It won't engage in conflict! How dare they!

... okay, sure. Uh... yeah, no, I would not expect a violent reaction to a country that refuses to sew the seeds of discord.

Now, if Israel had refused discourse, that might have been a problem, but that's not how it is. (It's also not a justification for raping teens or burning babies bodies or any of the other shit they've done, but you don't seem to care when Hamas does unjustifiable things, so let's put that aside).

Lol, a deal implies two willing parties.

Fine, the Olmert proposal.

The realignment plan was a unilateral border change where Israel attemped to legalize their illegal settlements by claiming they’d disengage from the West Bank.

Olmert proposed a proposed deal to Abbas in 2008. He offered, in a short negotiation in principle, over 93% of the west bank, with land swaps in return, giving East Jerusalem to the Palestinian people, acknowledging it as their capitol.... Israel only wanted a small sliver of the land it already controlled and offered an equal amount of land in return, including East Jerusalem! And peace. That's all they wanted. A few land swaps and peace.

And Abbas didn't go for it because he knew Hamas would not abide it. There is no such thing as peace when Hamas is present.

They could have said that the land swaps only occur after Israel has withdrawn other settlements under such-and-so conditions, they could have cut a deal around that negotiation in principle, but Abbas just couldn't negotiate.

No, I was not talking about a unilateral move. Although if that had happened, the West Bank would be free now.

Yes, and terrifyingly he’s been your PM six times… over a decade and a half of creating the perfect environment for extremism.

I'm American.

You know how he won in 2009? Olmert backed out of Gaza, terrorism spiked, and Netanyahu said "I told you so."

Less occupation, more violence? Yeah, that's a recipe to fuel war hawks.

I don’t think your people are going to look back with any pride for what is going to unfold in the next few months.

No, of course not, they didn't want this to happen. You think they would have looked back with pride if they sat around and did nothing?

I can't do this again, I haven't been getting any work done, getting caught up in internet debates with people who don't want to sympathize with Jews in the first place. I'm going to mute you now. Or block you, because kbin only has one button, and it's really a mute feature, but... I can't keep doing this.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

From OPs username I get why they care what NY Post thinks...

But why would normal people care? NY Post is straight trash

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

For anyone curious, here is the letter:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24025075/joint-statement-by-harvard-palestine-solidarity-groups.pdf

It was surprisingly difficult to find! All the "news" articles were just he-said-she-said baloney.

Edit: Here is the text so you don't have to download the PDF:

Joint Statement by Harvard Palestine Solidarity Groups on the Situation in Palestine We, the undersigned student organizations, hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence. Today’s events did not occur in a vacuum. For the last two decades, millions of Palestinians in Gaza have been forced to live in an open-air prison. Israeli of f i cials promise to “open the gates of hell,” and the massacres in Gaza have already commenced. Palestinians in Gaza have no shelters for refuge and nowhere to escape. In the coming days, Palestinians will be forced to bear the full brunt of Israel’s violence. The apartheid regime is the only one to blame. Israeli violence has structured every aspect of Palestinian existence for 75 years. From systematized land seizures to routine airstrikes, arbitrary detentions to military checkpoints, and enforced family separations to targeted killings, Palestinians have been forced to live in a state of death, both slow and sudden. Today, the Palestinian ordeal enters into uncharted territory. The coming days will require a f i rm stand against colonial retaliation. We call on the Harvard community to take action to stop the ongoing annihilation of Palestinians. This statement was co-authored by a coalition of Palestine solidarity groups at Harvard. For student safety, the names of all original signing organizations have been concealed at this time.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Damn. I find it incredibly difficult to trust any company that takes issue with this statement. They're calling for an end to a genocide and get punished for it? Shit sucks.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

That is pretty straight up and a sober critique honestly.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Well, this frees up some jobs from being taken away by Harvard elitists.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Cowards. There are people being killed for Palestinian freedom, and these college students are afraid of CEOs blacklisting them for having an opinion.

Textbook definition of succumbing to tyranny.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

You know what’s tyranny? When your dictatotship refuses to even accept the existence of their neighbors, who’s collaboration you dearly need for survival let alone a life worth living.

[+] [email protected] -21 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They fucked around and now they are about to find out.

[+] [email protected] -16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They put their names on a paper supporting terrorism.

They are finding out that was a mistake, but it is too late.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Did you forget to change accounts? You seem to have replied to yourself.

[+] [email protected] -11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Nice try to call me a sock puppet though.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (2 children)

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago

You certainly quack.

[+] [email protected] -8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

it looks a lot more like a dude who never used reddit and doesn't really get how these sorts of forums work, but cool of you to obliterate him in the comments for breaking the norms of a social network with thousands of people on it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

says the person labeling everyone and everything antisemitic. Le' irony.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I said that the Harvard students supporting Hamas were antisemitic. I'm not sure how that makes my point about technical norms on lemmy/kbin ironic, do you maybe have a little bit of trouble with the English language? Do you need a grown-up to teach you what the word "irony" means?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

you:

I said that the Harvard students supporting Hamas were antisemitic

That statement by them didn't even mention Hamas. Your refusal to look at the Palestinian people as anything but a force to be fought against is disturbing

Quite disappointing to see kbin users attempt to justify a military blockade of people who use every weapon they can get to try to kill your civilians, and try to turn every resource they can get into weapons, is not "an open air prison."

-Guess the KBIN users must be antisemites.

The UN might be a little bit biased here. Maybe.
It's almost like they have a consistent history of appointing antisemites.
There may be a reason Israel doesn't fucking trust them.

-Guess the literal U.N. must be antisemites.

The irony is your trying to go around saying take it easy on a person belligerently calling for people to have their lives ruined while simultaneously justifying the treatment of human beings as something less than. Your right, more disgusting than ironic. The only lesson you're qualified to teach anyone is how not to be a decent human. You seem to have a knack for it.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 11 months ago

That statement by them didn't even mention Hamas.

yes, that's why it was antisemitic. Did you read the comment you're replying to? I pointed that out very specifically.

They blamed the violence exclusively on Israel. Do you want to comment on why they didn't blame the violence on the people doing the violence? Do you see why I might have brought that up?

Your refusal to look at the Palestinian people as anything but a force to be fought against is disturbing

The Palestinian people are people who deserve freedom. Your refusal to condemn their real oppressors is disturbing.

-Guess the KBIN users must be antisemites.

I didn't call that user an antisemite, did I?

-Guess the literal U.N. must be antisemites.

Why not include the links I shared? The links that literally explained the antisemitic remarks by those UN officials? Do you not want to see how maybe some of the people accused of antisemitism are maybe actually antisemites?

belligerently calling for people to have their lives ruined

That's not something that happened.

while simultaneously justifying the treatment of human beings as something less than.

that's also not something that happened.

I really hope people here aren't stupid enough to believe your lies.

[+] [email protected] -23 points 11 months ago (3 children)

What goes around comes around. Fuck you, antisemites.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago

I can't understand how someone can be ignorant enough to think being anti-isreal is equivalent to being an antisemite.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Totally agree. I just thank god every day that it is completely and utterly impossible to criticize Israel without being an antisemite. Inexorably linked, for sure. Absolutely should NOT have nuanced or subtle opinions on anything.

Because of course all Jewish people live in Israel, and the Israeli government consists of everyone in the entire country, not just political leaders. God, it’s so good being right all the time.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 11 months ago

Israel ≠ Jewish. Jewish ≠ religious always. Criticizing Israel ≠antisemite