ELI5: What's the differences between Lemmy and kbin? (beehaw.org)

submitted 2 years ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I'm out of the loop.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

lemmy is the more mature platform, whilst kbin is newer and more feature rich.

What it amounts to is that kbin can do things that lemmy can't do, but the things that they both do, lemmy tends to do better. And as kbin is effectively in alpha at the moment, it doesn't have much documentation, making installation and configuration a challenge.

The biggest point of difference in features is that kbin is aware of other fediverse content in a way lemmy isn't. kbin and lemmy both talk to each other really well, but kbin also natively supports other types of fediverse groups (gup.pe, friendica and chirp). kbin also lets you see non threadiverse content, by attaching hashtags to groups. So if you set up say a cycling group on kbin, you can also make the group watch the #cycling tag, any any mastodon or other micoblogging content will appear on a special tab in your cycling group.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

So if you set up say a cycling group on kbin, you can also make the group watch the #cycling tag, any any mastodon or other micoblogging content will appear on a special tab in your cycling group.

Now that is a powerful feature. Great way to fill a feed with content too.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

I think that will have me switch eventually, but it sucks its php.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm hoping they add that feature to Lemmy soon enough and switching won't be necessary.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

(Not shooting the messenger, just as info for other readers.)
Using hashtags for this seems like an idea with some severe limitations because it can only see the posts it has happened to come across otherwise. (Unlike the other group formats.)

@ada @meteorswarm

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Yep, but that's true of keyword search on all fediverse platforms, and unlike lemmy, you can follow micro blog fedi accounts from kbin, so you can federate non group content in more readily

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Yes, keyword search works poorly on fedi is what I'm saying 💁🏻‍♀️
Using that as a basis for group talk can end up being super unreliable in some situations.

@ada @meteorswarm

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

No more than anywhere else on the fediverse

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Yes, it works poorly everywhere on the fediverse, is exactly what I'm saying.

Hashtags on Fedi can be good for organizing stuff within a single account or instance, or it can be used for other things like trigger specific bots, but they can not (as you know) work like an IRC channel like they did on Twitter.

That's why I'm not happy about kbin elevating that misfeature and legitimizing its misuse as if it were as robust as the other federated group protocols are. It's not the end of the world or the worst feature on the planet, I'm not that worked up about it, it's just not good, is all.

(Again, not blaming you for that ofc, you only reported on it, and that was awesome, thanks.)

@ada @meteorswarm

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

It's not a "misfeature" though. The inherent nature of decentralisation is that there is no single "true" view of the network. You can only ever see part of it, and you ultimately have to curate that view so that it fits your needs. This is part of that.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Correct, and that's exactly why it does not work for group things.

If fedi is like email, and it is similar in many ways, a Lemmy community is like a mailing list. People can send to the list and the threads on the list from different servers. And there can be separate communities about the same topics just as there can be separate mailing lists about the same topics.

But hashtags in email wouldn't work as a replacement for mailing lists. Hashtags in email can still have some use, within a mailing list or in a specific conversation, but it's something very different from a mailing list.

On kbin, if people think that "Oh, here is where the posts about cycling will show up" but the magazine is just based around a hashtag, there's no way for people to participate deliberately. It's misleading.

Using hashtags as if it were tumblr or twitter is anti-decentralization and drives people into using the biggest instances only. Groups a la gup.pe and Lemmy and Friendica is a solution to that. It's only a partially decentralized solution, since each group itself is centrally hosted (exactly like mailing lists were), but it's at least a solution, whereas misusing hashtags that way isn't.

@ada @meteorswarm

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 years ago

ELI5? McDonald's and Burger King. One has a Big Mac, the other a Whopper. One has red and yellow, the other red and blue. Either way, you're getting a burger.

Oh, they're also right next to each other so you can wave to the people in Burger King from McDonald's and vice versa. Now everyone is enjoying burgers together.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

Kbin is also written in PHP where as Lemmy in Rust, nuff said

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Is that why KBin never works for me, but multiple Lemmy instances do? Lol

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Probably not the reason. Rust is just more systems level and performant than interpreted PHP

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

Lol. Love this place. I make a joke, but get an actual explanation in return. Thanks!

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Cuz we nerds

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Also Lemmy has been kicking around as a hobby project for a couple years. kbin.social, the flagship kbin instance, was first opened in April. They haven't even made tools for starting new instances easily yet, and went from a few hundred users to tens of thousands of users basically overnight. It's a miracle that kbin.social is even still running at all.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Lemmy and kbin are two different forum software that can be installed and run on servers. Because both use the ActivityPub protocol, the content between them can be shared. So, a Lemmy user will be able to see content from a server running kbin, using Lemmy.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

But how can I see kbin content from lemmy, I couldnt find an option yet. Also from kbin I cannot find lemmy communities

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

There isn't an option, you can't even tell but you already have the kbin content.

You can't disable it.

The reason that's happening right now is because kbin is enacting ddos protection using cloudflare so they aren't federating properly, this is a temporary problem.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

Is this only some kbin instances thing or all kbin instances thing? I'm fairly sure that fedia.io (/kbin instance) does not use cloudflare. But that would definitely explain why I'm struggling to search some instances that might use it.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

As far as i'm aware it's only the main kbin instance.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

but (as far as i can tell) kbin is way more centralized than lemmy, so it has a large effect

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

It's not at all, they're just having tech issues right now.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

ah. do you know where i can find a list of all the kbin instances?

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

https://kbin.fediverse.observer/list

Here's a list I used to find kbin.run, it's a little barebones right now but the UI is really familiar as someone who used Reddit a lot. It is mostly centralized to kbin.social right now, as more instances pop up and the main instance fixes federation it should sort itself out as long as it keeps momentum.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

This is due to Kbin using Cloudflare anti DDoS, which disallows Lemmy instances reaching it

[-] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

That seems to go against the goal of federation.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 years ago

It’s a matter of keeping kbin up at all at the moment. The rapid growth in users following Reddit's ongoing suicide has overloaded the instance. It’s a temporary measure that Ernest will turn off when additional resources can be obtained. He is not a fan of losing federation either.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Indeed, but my guess is that Kbin's admins don't really know. Also that's what I've read, it may very well not be that :p

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

It's a temporary measure because of their explosive growth and being DDOS'd

They're getting better network resources and will resolve this.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

How do I find kbin communities and how do I add them to my Lemmy instance?

Is there a tutorial anywhere?

[-] [email protected] 0 points 2 years ago

Lemmy instances seem to have trouble seeing content from kbin instances for some reason.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 2 years ago

The main kbin instance, kbin.social is getting slammed and cloudflare is breaking their sync in both directions, so currently you can't see their content on any other Lemmy or kbin instance afaik, and you can't see Lemmy content on there. Hopefully that gets fixed soon but it'll probably take a while. The other kbin instance are tiny and don't have much content but I think should be visible here

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this post was submitted on 12 Jun 2023

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