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[–] 345 points 1 year ago (95 children)

We can blame the religious organisation as much as we want, but the fundamental problem here is payment processors. They should be common carriers. Content-neutral middlemen who facilitate payment to anything that isn't literally unlawful. This is no different to an ISP throttling access to Netflix because they operate their own streaming platform. If the storefront, the developer, and the buyer are all ok with a transaction, there's no good reason for a fourth party to stand in the way of that.

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  • [–] 119 points 1 year ago (58 children)

    Yeah, payment processing is among the many many many industries that ought to be nationalized so they can be administered in a transparent and democratic manner (see also, healthcare education housing electricity internet etc.)

    There's just too much opportunity to use it to manipulate markets and oppress minority viewpoints for it to remain in private hands imo

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Putting the ridicoulous idea that governments are fair and transparent aside, payment processors need to be international. Otherwise, most countries will not be able to access services because their local payment processor is not supported by smaller websites.

    However, the payment processors should be regulated with something similar to net neutrality so they can't discriminate payments. And EU could probably launch a government run competitor to dilute their duopoly.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Maybe the idea of BTC was fine. What wasn't fine is the idea of mining.

    And maybe payments over the Internet or over PSTN are fundamentally different from messaging, conferencing, downloading files, all that stuff.

    But what's important is the ability to pay for a service with something resembling cash IRL in the sense that an ATM machine from which you took that cash can't take it back because you are paying for an adult journal with it.

    But at the same time how can there be so few payment processors that they can affect a platform's decision to do a kind of business?

    That's where we should look. Why is it hard to be a payment processor.

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    [–] 146 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    It's the same religious organization that went after them NSFW games on Steam. Like the games or not, it's always a slippery slope with this kind of censorship.

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  • [–] [S] 96 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Of course it would be the bible thumpers. Gotta stick their nose into everyone's business.

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  • [–] 68 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If it's against your religion to play porn games, fine. Don't play them.

    But fuck off if you think you can tell other people what not to play.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The fact that they've been successful at censoring stuff is a problem. It will likely embolden them to do worse.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    Not just successful. But praised.

    Even on Lemmy, if you go check out the initial threads on the Steam censorship you'll see lots of "It is just incest and furry shit. Of course that should be banned" style comments. Less so here, but plenty of other boards and influencers immediately then chimed in that porn addiction is the real problem and you should watch a stream of a nice bigoted white man rather than give in to it and blah blah blah.

    And it didn't even start there. It ALSO isn't the start, but the attack on Pornhub a few years back was a big watershed moment where this exact same attack was used (pressure the credit card companies to not do business with a morally dubious site). On the surface? Pornhub is full of revenge porn and child porn so it needs to be destroyed. No rational person would disagree with that... and everyone quietly ignored all the data showing that (and this was early 2020s...) facebook and twitter and instagram and so forth had MUCH more of both of those. But hey, Pornhub Corp complied and actually instituted some REALLY good policies that more or less equates to signed consent forms for every single performer. And... they were still on the shitlist. But everyone had stopped caring.

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  • [–] 88 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Payment processors and financial institutions sure do seem to hold disproportionate amounts of power.

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    And a single woman and her organization seems to hold a disproportionate amount of power over the payment processors.

    I don't understand it. Payment processors could easily tell her to pound sand, but they don't.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    talk to anyone that works in the porn industry. Mastercard and Visa have ALWAYS been like this ever since the late 90s/early 00s. they set the rules for what the adult entertainment industry can produce and sell and only now are people discovering because of video games that they've been this way for decades.

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    [+] 81 points 1 year ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)
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    [–] 67 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Direct link to their statement rather than reading an article talking about it: https://itch.io/updates/update-on-nsfw-content

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  • [–] 89 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    rather than reading an article talking about it

    Good as a supplement, but the RPS article gives context itch.io is too much of a cowardly little bitch to include like: "Collective Shout describe themselves as a "grassroots campaigns movement against the objectification of women and the sexualisation of girls", but are associated with outspokenly homophobic and anti-abortion Christian conservative groups, according to a now-deleted Vice article."

    Edit: and yes, the Vice article was removed because Vice's ownership bitched out over covering Collective Shout.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I would understand forcibly banning/removing something, if it poses a real existential threat to the majority of people.

    But religion fueled bigotry, in a place where you can CHOOSE to buy and play something, or completely ignore and hide if you’d like? Come on. Adults can decide if they want to have access to this content on their own, without a completely unrelated third party constantly trying to fucking inject themselves in between

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wonder how long it will take for them to start going after LGBT+ stuff. Hope I'm wrong.

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    [–] 47 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's not difficult to imagine what kind of expression these groups might decide to deem as unacceptable next.

    Literally the bottom line. They have found something that works, and they are going to use and abuse it.

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    [–] 40 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Puritans are going to destroy the world.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Wow, I might actually have to stop using itch.io, is nowhere safe from the craziest anymore? I dont even make NSFW games, but bending the knee to dickheads over some overtly religious bullshit isnt gonna work for me.

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  • [–] 56 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    It wasn’t Itch.io’s fault, but the fact that payment processing has been globally monopolized and can force it’s own arbitrary will on anyone without recourse.

    Blame Visa and MasterCard and the christofascist scum from Collective Shout, who is responsible for pressuring the processors into harming the stores and artists.

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    [–] 33 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Damn guess we'll need to move to the alternative- ah wait- no- itch was the alternative.


    I wonder if a federated game platform would work as an idea or if that's just an inherently bad idea due to the nature of trusting strangers with your money.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Still wouldn't address the root problem here: payment processing companies have the power to just deny payment from even happening.

    Unless you're referring to making a federated platform that instead allows devs to connect with buyers and make transactions off channel.

    Would limit widespread issues like this but now you're opening a whole new can of worms with trust

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    My biggest problem is, they banned with this method, all the games that are targeted for adults but not porn, or gore. Like they hate spicy food and banned all things that are not white rice and unseasoned chicken breast.

    It was really hard to find deep philosophical games which are good and are not containing porn or gore, but targeted to adults. Now its imposaible. They have literraly no platform. Unlike the porn games, they have many aside from steam and itch.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    I think it's time for a game platform divorced from Visa/Mastercard to rise to the occasion and step in for these platforms. Websites without these processors already exist, so the model is proven to work well enough (it's less convenient for sure).

    I wouldn't think the US would be a good country for this hypothetical store though. I think it's only a matter of time until they attack the publishers and studios directly. I'm not counting on the 1st amendment to help anyone.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Well that is at least something Bitcoin could have fixed

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    [+] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)
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    [–] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Where the hell is left to legally buy my porn games?

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    [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Collective Shout describe themselves as a "grassroots campaigns movement against the objectification of women and the sexualisation of girls", but are associated with outspokenly homophobic and anti-abortion Christian conservative groups, according to a now-deleted Vice article. They recently claimed credit for the campaign that saw payment providers pressuring the online storefronts to remove content the group deemed unacceptable.

    It's not hard to empathise with the folks behind Itch for being placed in an impossible position, but their lack of forewarning has left creators blindsided and in some cases, seemingly without income. "I wish we had gotten some warning from Steam and Itch," wrote game developer Robert Yang on Bluesky, "but we already know it's Collective Shout + payment processors waging culture war against LGBTQ people and sexual expression. I guess there's nothing else for Steam and Itch to say".

    Personally speaking, I'd be willing to extend that good faith to Itch.io themselves, but they aren't the one holding the gun to their own heads here. That'd be financial companies, pressured by Collective Shout, who themselves have ties to an organisation whose CEO once described gay marriage as an "unspeakable offence to God". It's not difficult to imagine what kind of expression these groups might decide to deem as unacceptable next.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm just learning about this and I wonder what has Steam done in this case to protect my rights as their client.

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