Switzerland allows the sale of Leopard 1 tanks to Germany on condition that they are not transferred to Ukraine (militarnyi.com)

submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[-] [email protected] 18 points 4 days ago

I read this as the Swiss wanting to send tanks to Ukraine but it's illegal. So they send tanks to Germany and Germany sends their old tanks to Ukraine.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

What old tanks though? We have not been using the Leo 1 for decades now. There aren't any in active service, all that were left in Germany have already been given to Ukraine or are made ready to be given to Ukraine.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

This really baffles me. What does Germany want with a bunch of obsolete Leopard 1s anyway? I guess they could break them down for parts and then send parts they already had to Ukraine, allowing Ukraine to repair some of their damaged Leopard 1s.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

I doubt that would be allowed with the sales agreement. Allthemore baffling, Switzerland really fucked themselves over there

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

A lot of speculation in the comments here but there's some context/details missing.

"Germany" didn't buy the tanks but the German company Rheinmetall
While the price isn't known, another company previously bought 25 of those tanks from RUAG for lousy 500€ a piece and then didn't even bother to come pick them up, so I assume Rheinmetall got a similar deal
Lots of countries still use them, Greece even wants to enlarge and upgrade their fleet of Leopard 1, they're still in demand and with a purchase price of 500€ and a bit of repairs there's probably a ton of money to be made

So my guess is this has nothing to do with Ukraine, just a company seeing a business opportunity.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 3 days ago

In 2023, the Swiss government prohibited the sale of the battle tanks to Germany out of concerns that they would be transferred to Ukraine. Swiss law prohibits the delivery of war materiel to countries involved in armed conflicts.

[-] [email protected] 17 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Swiss law prohibits the supply of military equipment and materials to countries involved in armed conflicts

Why is Germany bothering to buy anything from Switzerland? What the hell is the point of arms if you cannot use them in defense of friends?

Now, there is a chance Germany is only talking about this as it would free up other stock to send Ukraine. But, this is a poor choice otherwise.

For example, Germany, the largest buyer of Swiss weapons, excluded Swiss companies from some procurement agreements, while Denmark and the Netherlands suspended orders.

This goes along with a Perun video on the subject. In which Swiss weapons exports cratered since 2022, despite massive increases in demand for the very arms they sell.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Buying in preparation for your normal defense forces is different than buying for a currently active armed conflict.

Switzerland insists on trying to remain neutral in conflicts, this is part of that.

[-] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Here is the issue. Let's say Germany buys for their own forces and only for their own forces, no other goals. Fair enough, the sale won't be blocked. But, the industrial capacity for these arms is now built up in Switzerland, not in Germany, not in France.

Sometime in the future these arms you bought for your own forces are needed in a war you yourself are in. An unfortunate situation, but sometimes war is forced upon a country by others. What happens when you go to Switzerland to regenerate your arms for this unfortunate conflict you find yourself in?

Switzerland replies, "Swiss law prohibits the supply of military equipment and materials to countries involved in armed conflicts". And now, all this industrial capacity you funded for your own armed forces is unavailable to you in a war you yourself are in. You have no way to regenerate your arms. You are, as one might say, fucked.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Leopard1 is a German tank although an old one. So maintaing them is entirly possible for Germany. The idea is probably to trade them for some other tanks, which can be send to Ukraine. The Leopard2 line is at capacity for the next couple years and there is no other tank being activly produced in the EU right now. The only other option is the K2 production in Poland, but that is a South Korean tank design and they do not want their weapons in Ukraine either. Lots of Europeans have asked. The Leclerc production line is still around, but currently closed.