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submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 82 points 2 months ago

I'm no expert and I know that javascript is full of wtf moments, but please.. Let it be B

It's not gong to be B, it's it.

[-] [email protected] 97 points 2 months ago

It is true. Math.min() returns positive Infinity when called with no arguments and Math.max() returns Negative Infinity when called with no arguments. Positive Infinity > Negative Infinity.

Math.min() works something like this

def min(numbers):
  r = Infinity
  for n in numbers:
    if n < r:
      r = n
  return r

I'm guessing there's a reason they wanted min() to be able to be called without any arguments but I'm sure it isn't a good one.

[-] [email protected] 35 points 2 months ago

So, the language isn't compiled (or wasn't originally) so they couldn't make min() be an error that only a developer saw, it has to be something that the runtime on the end-user system dealt with. So, it had to be assigned some value. Under those restrictions, it is the most mathematically sound value. It makes miniumum-exactly-2(x, min(<...>)) be exactly the same as min(x, <...>), even when the "<...>" has no values.

As a developer, I see a lot of value in static analysis, including refusing to generate output for sufficiently erroneous results of static analysis, so I don't like using JS, and the language that I tinker with will definitely have a separate compilation step and reject the equivalent of min(). But, if I HAD to assign something like that a value, it probably would be a representation of infinity, if we had one (probably will due to IEEE floats).

HTH

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[-] [email protected] 38 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
Math.min() == Infinity
Math.max() == -Infinity

Wtf is going on JS...

edit: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Math/min

Its the min value of the input params, or Infinity.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Math.min.length is 2, which weakly signals that it's designed to handle at least two parameters

Why would they even define this value?

Note: I’m not a js dev, do most functions have length?

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

I am also not a JS dev, we possibly aren't brain damaged enough to understand the perfection.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

I develop with JS? All I can say is I need more brain damage to understand where is out

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Just keep developing with it, you'll get CTE soon.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

Most people don't use JS because they think it's perfect... they use it because it's the language that works on web browsers... or because thier coworkers made something in it... or because the library that does what they want uses it...

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

For such a terrible language, it really has staying power...

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

JS is the machine code of the web. Fewer and fewer people might write it directly, but it will live as long as the web platform does.

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[-] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's C, NaN is never equal to itself in floating point, that's not just a JS thing.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago

No, it's JS

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

Narrator: "It wasn't B."

[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Fun fact, even tho B is False, Math.min > Math.max is true

[-] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago

That is not a fun fact. How do I unsubscribe :D

[-] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

But B is true

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I also am not familiar with javascript anymore....precisely because of this, exact, insane bullshit.

B... and/or C... evaluating as FALSE are the only things that... should even kind of make sense, according to my brain.

Though at this point in my life, I have unironically had a good number of concussions and contusions, so ... well you'd think that would help with JS development.

Javascript is insanity, and I am still convinced it is at least 40% responsible for Notch losing his goddamned mind.

'null' is somehow an object. because fuck you, thats why!

Is... 0 == '' ... is that two single quotes ' ' ?

Or one double quote " ?

If... it is one double quote... that wouldn't even evaluate, as it would just be an empty string without a defined end...

But if it was two single quotes... that would just be a proper empty string... and because of forced type coercion, both 0 and '' are FALSE when compared with ==, but not when compared with ===, because that ignores forced type coercion...

https://www.w3docs.com/snippets/javascript/when-to-use-double-or-single-quotes-in-javascript.html

Oh my fucking god WHY?!

Just fucking use one special character to delimit strings!

Don't have two that don't work together and also behave differently even when you pick just one of them... GraaaghhH!

brb, figuring out where Larry Ellison lives...

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I don't think my sanity can take all of these explanations.

Though I just spotted one that's worse than null being an object ..

typeof NaN
"number"

I mean, come on.. it's even in the fucking name!

Edit - fixed capitalisation in 'NaN'

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Douglas Crockford has a whole chapter of these in his latest book. There's also this classic video.

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[-] [email protected] 72 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 115 points 2 months ago

No, it's Javascript, keep up

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

Javascript is basically just C with some syntactical sugar, right? RIGHT?!?

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
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[-] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Math.min isn’t the minimum integer; it’s the minimum of a list (and max visa versa)… the min/max of an undefined list is the same… IDK what it is, but this probably the most reasonable of the “WTFs” they could have put there i think… other languages would throw an exception or not compile (which JS definitely SHOULD do instead of this, buuuuut lots of JS has aversions to errors)

*edit: okay the curiosity was killing me: Math.min() is Infinity and Math.max() is -Infinity

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[-] [email protected] 63 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago

That one wasn't the one I had issues with, since the concept is essentially the same across all languages. We say it's false because we can't conclusively say that it's true. Same as the reason why null != null in SQL.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

It also makes a lot of conditional expressions less complicated because comparisons of all kind against NaN return false.

[-] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago

The one option that is mandated by an ISO standard.

Besides, if max and min are going to have a value without any parameter, it has to be exactly those Javascript uses. Unless you have a type that define other bounds for your numbers. And null always have a pointer type (that is object in Javascript), for the same reason that NaN always have a number type.

The only one that is bad on that list is D.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

typeof null === "object" was actually a bug in the early implementations, and they decided to keep it in the spec: https://2ality.com/2013/10/typeof-null.html

(see the comment from Brendan Eich)

[-] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Tony Hoare: "Introducing NULL was a billion-dollar mistake"

Brendan Eich: "Hold my undefined"

[-] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago

We had one null, yes. But what about second null?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

Maybe D is too single quotes 0 == ''

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

D...Deez nutz!

[-] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago
[-] [email protected] 8 points 2 months ago

I'd say C too because that's the only one that would be True in a normal programming language and this is javascript so...

[-] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

probably not true in most other langauges. although I'm not well versed in the way numbers are represented in code and what makes a number "NaN", something tells me the technical implications of that would be quite bad in a production environment.

the definitive way to check for NaN in JS would probably be something like

// with `num` being an unknown value

// Convert value to a number
const res = Number(num);

/*
 * First check if the number is 0, since 0 is a falsy
 * value in JS, and if it isn't, `NaN` is the only other
 * falsy number value
 */
const isNaN = res !== 0 && !res;
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[-] [email protected] 15 points 2 months ago

I love the two lonely downvotes on this.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Merging the upvotes and downvotes is the best option

[-] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

nah, it's more fun this way.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

If you thought this was fun you might like https://jsisweird.com/ with similar questions

[-] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago
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this post was submitted on 17 May 2025
503 points (97.9% liked)

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