this post was submitted on 16 May 2025
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Europe

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Rules (2024-08-30)

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MODERATORS
 

Hi.

In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.

While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.

And with that, let's go:

In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called "Reason of State" introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as "Israel-related antisemitism".

Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it's not that fun.

There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.

If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:

  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
  • Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
  • Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
  • The slogan "from the river..."
  • Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
  • ... and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis

Comments will not be removed for the following:

  • Denouncing genocide.
  • Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
  • Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
  • Referring to the current Israeli government as "criminal," "expansionist," or "far-right".

If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I'd also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @[email protected] account (which all mods have access to).

To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).

  • A news report:

    Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o'clock in the morning. A loud, continuous "banging" against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. [...] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK "storm" past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. [...] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student's profile: "From the river [...]

  • A legal treatise:

    In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, "the slogan 'From the River to the Sea' (in German or other languages)" is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. [...] the current legal situation [regarding "Denial of Israel's right to exist"] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor's office.

  • Press release from the previous government:

    In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel's existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas's actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of "approval of criminal acts" under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).

  • Another news report

    In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. "In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event", several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions ...)

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Amnesty International

  • Overview Germany in 2024 by Human Rights Watch

federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)

(page 2) 50 comments
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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

While calling Israeli fascist isnt allowed, am I allowed to call specific Israeli politicians Kahanist?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Fascism isn't exclusive to the historical Nazis. The rule is about relativism in regards to the crimes of the historical Nazis, and especially the holocaust.

Parts of the current Israeli government are obviously fascist, but calling all Israelis fascists would be against the general rules of this community.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Am I allowed to point out that the Kahanist ideology is rapidly gaining popularity among the Israeli populous? Or the fact that Israeli was founded by a literal national Bolshevik? Or how the Israeli left is a mix of national Socialists and national Bolsheviks while the right is a mix of kahanists and religious fundamentalists?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

It would be great if you could also support that with some credible sources instead of just saying so to fish for responses, aka trolling.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 day ago (24 children)

Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.

So can I say "screw Israel; dismantle that apartheid state and build a true democracy with equal rights for everyone (including Jews) in its place"? The way this part is worded it could go either way.

Also wow that stuff you listed sounds really dystopian.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (8 children)

This still seems like a one sided approach to moderating the issue.

While law demands the censorship of certain criticisms of Israel and Zionism, there are none in regards to Palestinians.

That doesn't mean equal rules shouldn't be applied to the other side.

If you cannot argue for the end of Israel, you should neither be allowed to argue for the end of Palestine. If you cannot defend the actions or existence of Hamas or Hezbollah, neither should you be allowed to defend the actions or existence of the IDF. If you call for a one state solution it should include equal rights not only for Israelis but also Palestinians.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I have yet to see a comment or post Lemmy that actually argues for the 'end of Palestine'. That would already violate rule 4 if someone did it.

neither should you be allowed to defend the actions or existence of the IDF

Isn't the IDF Israel's regular army? Hamas and Hezbollah aren't exactly Palestine's regular armies, they're political organizations that also have military. There's a reason why Hamas isn't really active in the West Bank.

I haven't seen much defending of the IDF's actions, but fair point, that should probably be prohibited.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 21 hours ago

Without going into the Gaza - West Bank schism, Hamas has governed the Gaza strip for nearly 2 decades now and its military is de facto that territory's military forces.

The argument of 'political militia' only holds water if there is a significant opposition party with a relatively equally large military force. I have yet to see evidence of that.

It doesn't help that there isn't a currently valid "constitution of Palestina" which could regulate military force and who controls them.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

Palestine doesn't have a regular army because they're not allowed to be a regular state.

Why should that matter? At the end of the day an army is an army, whether it is commanded by an official state, the leadership of a political organisation, a terrorist organisation or by itself. And in the case of Israel-Palestine both commit planned out terrorist acts and atrocities.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Am I allowed to say Germany is a police state?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If that is your opinion 🀷

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Based on the news articles I’m seeing I’m forced to conclude it is.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.

Sad that equal rights for every human, and imo all living beings, isn't just given as natural and needs to be specified explicitly.

What's the law's perspective of a global no-state solution?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're not wrong but it's an explicit defense against any accusations of supporting violence against humans.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Because some individuals think violence is good, I know.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I would like to say that i disagree with some of this, but will not argue it because I respect that the people who put effort in maintaining* this community are the ones that make the rules. Thank you for taking the time to write this explanation. edit: small spelling error

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Would it be appropriate for people to share alternative communities which aren’t subject to as strict censorship on this issue?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I mean ... feel free. (Unless you're linking to really unsavory communities.)

The thing is, we're not a Mid-East community anyway (thankfully, I would personally say--as I would be really out-of-depth there!). While this is an issue that may flare up occasionally, I don't see it as a permanent hindrance to contribution.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Question. Would a comment calling Nethanyahu β€œfacist” be removed?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Not if it had that typo. ^^ On a more serious note: I find these hard to mod and harder to argue against. The guy is in a coalition with outright fascists because this is the only way to save his power; he at the very least tolerates all of Europe's fascists to come to his government's "antisemitism" conferences; he wages a war currently that is officially called a war of self-defense but has morphed into being transparently expansionist and genocidal.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago (4 children)
  • Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.

All people are equal, but some are more equal than others

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

More specified, not more equal in this case, really.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago (14 children)

Why do they need to be specified? If it's equal rights for all people, then that includes Jews. There is no need to specify if you are promoting equality for all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Germany (as in the law but also many of the german people) is a bit weird about that, because, you know, it's predescessor tried – sadly with very much success – to fucking murder every single European jew. That is a reason why in Germany, we are so specific.

This is also why Germany will stand by Israel, even if their right-wing regime is now murdering people in Gaza. It is fucked up, but the way it is at the moment.

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