I can't watch the video at this moment but is there a reason "infant genital mutilation is not cool" doesn't work? It's the only argument I've ever needed
Once you confront someone with the stark reality that they performed genital mutilation on an infant, you enter the stages of grief, and it's not so much that it doesn't "work", but instead, now the person confronted with this reality has to dig and dig to justify the genital mutilation, and they've NEVER had to do that before.
This would be true for those who are cut too. For a long time, it was just "normal", and when these men are confronted with the reality that they've been living with an unnecessary mutilation, they will do the same thing. It's hard reconciling the parents you love, and the idea that they consented to your genital mutilation at birth.
I will say, among my group of friends, none of them had their sons circumcised, and among us, it's a large majority of boys within the group of kids. I don't know if that's a growing trend or just one local to me and my friends. We talk pretty openly about it, which is probably why.
They'll deny that it's actually mutilation. They'll get angry at your persistence and your unwavering position. They'll plead and bargain over how it's actually a good thing, and how no one wants the child to be "different".
This is what happened when i asked my mom about it. We did not reach the next two stages. We no longer speak but not at all because of this matter so i guess I'll never know if she feels bad for doing it.
I realize I'm making it seem like it's something that I think or talk about a lot but I only get obstinate about it when it's brought up by someone else
My mum is the same, she'll avoid the discussion or get really bad faith mean when pressed. Cuz of this and a few other stuff, we have no relationship now. We'd probably be fine-ish if she took 5 seconds to apologise for 3 things.
When I went down the rabbit hole of this years back, I got REALLY angry. It took a long time for me to pull out of it. I hope you're doing OK.
I hope you're doing OK.
I appreciate the sentiment but I've been ok with it for a long time.
CW non-traumatic personal parental stuff
Pretty easy to get over it when i have a lot of evidence that my mother's a narcissist and likely did it without regard for me at all and if my dad protested(unlikely) she probably manipulated his emotions.
I'm sorry about all that. That's gotta be hard to get over.
In regards to my parents, they're just normie centrists, so it's a bit more surprising that they could be so cold. I feel like being boomer white settlers does this to people.
Yeah, I get it, I don't think about it either until it's brought up. I've never asked my parents about it directly, and I probably won't. My parents are pretty cool, and I know that when I was born, that is just how everything was done. I don't say that to excuse it, but it's not like the people around them were challenging them on it, and they would have likely accepted the idea had it been presented to them. They've had no issue with my son not having it done.
and how no one wants the child to be "different".
my brother had his son circumcised even though he was thinking he wasnt going to do it because his gf/wife brought this up. i was honestly kind of flabbergasted, i didnt even know what to say, seemed like such a dumb reason i couldnt believe i was hearing. small mercies that his son will probably not really care, but still such a shitty thing to do to your child,...
I can understand a man coming to this conclusion. Im having a hard time wrapping my head around a women coming to this conclusion. That's wild.
I think that argument does work, but a lot of regular folks have literally never been confronted with any argument against circumcision.
I didn't need an argument to be against it
It's fine, tbh. I'm just used to anti circ people and arguments online being mostly terrible. (not your fault, reactionaries will always be shitty)
What exactly are the terrible arguments? Like women do it because they feel jealous of our dicks? Ok now that i imagined that strawman it looks a lot more believable
MRAs will say shit like:
cw: misogyny
most circ doctors are women, the industry is lead by women profiting off of the suffering of boys, feminists don't care about or support circumcision
Reactionary ideas are all just New World Order shit rebranded
most circ doctors are women
assuming this isn't true, right? not that it matters either way, just curious. also, what does feminism have to do with circumcision? from my understanding its prevalence stems from weird christian puritanism
The reactionaries making the claim aren't offering evidence, and those people are all bad faith all the time anyways. I don't think it's worth spending a moment considering their assertion. And yes, it's probably factually wrong.
Circumcision is so fucking weird, it's just a weird cultural american/jewish/arab/mena no one else does it. Like, by default you shouldn't be cutting kid's foreskins off, but if you do there's no need to get deep about it it's just a tradition.
This post has been fact checked by real intactivists
There's depth to it. I heard that it started as an adult rite of passage into a patriarchal cult that explicitly was building bonds between men against women. When the men began to take power they implemented it as an infant mutilation ritual.
This is a materialist takedown?
It's neither. I wish there were some sources cited. Wikipedia says Brown & Brown (1987) found that the biggest correlative factor a child being circumcised is whether the father is, but doesn't explain how it got so widespread in the first place.
Circumcision was an ideology of the ruling class.
IDK I think there's more to materialist analysis then just saying "it is what it is because of rich white men". No support for rich white men they should all get gulaged but when people shrug that off as all the explanation you should need it always makes my eyes glaze over. Just feels super lazy, and especially so in this case because it's not just a white tradition and it can be found in non-patriarchal societies as well.
It's a 28 second clip, and we're all talking about the West here.
because it's not just a white tradition and it can be found in non-patriarchal societies as well
Sounds like a defense
Sounds like a defense
If you genuinely believe that I don't think you're able to think clearly about this issue comrade
I'm not the person who walked into a convo that was objectively talking about Western non consensual genital cutting, saw the posters venting about their victimhood, and decided to mention the tiny proportion of non patriarchal humans that also do it. If you have any empathy for what we went through, then you wouldn't "um akshually" in this discussion.
I don't think you're able to think clearly
Kinda wierdly ableist
My absolute favorite discussions on the Internet are in vegan Facebook groups where people argue whether circumcision is vegan or not.
I've heard the argument that it can desensitize your dick but as someone who is circumcised I have a related but opposite issue.
CW CSA and sex stuff
My glans is permanently out because the hood isn't there anymore due to circumcision. That means the most sensitive part of my sex organ is just hanging out there, rubbing on the fabric of my underwear and so on all day every day. It's a problem with no damn solution. Some days it feels so sensitive and you are just trying to go about your day any every time you move its like, "hey, let's rub your dick; party time." It sucks. Combine that with CSA I suffered and the hyper-sexuality I've experienced my whole life, it's a struggle with being overly horned up all the goddamn time. I used to look forward to getting older when your libido drops naturally. Mine hasn't and doesn't seem like it ever will.
It just seems so cruel to me.
Breadtube if it didn't suck.
Post videos you genuinely enjoy and want to share, duh. Celebrate the diversity of interests shared by chapochatters by posting a deep dive into Venetian kelp farming, I dunno. Also media criticism, bite-sized versions of left-wing theory, all the stuff you expected. But I am curious about that kelp farming thing now that you mentioned it.
Low effort / spam videos might be removed, especially weeb content.
There is a cytube that you can paste videos into and watch with whoever happens to be around. It's open submission unless there's something important to commandeer it with at the time.
A weekly watch party happens every Saturday (Sunday down under), with video nominations Saturday-Monday, voting Monday-Thursday. See the pin for whatever stage it's currently in.
