Summary

New York City has become the first U.S. city to implement a congestion charge, with car drivers paying up to $9 daily to enter areas south of Central Park.

The scheme aims to reduce traffic and fund public transport but has faced opposition, including from Donald Trump, who has vowed to overturn it.

Fees vary by vehicle type, with trucks and buses paying higher rates.

Despite legal challenges, the initiative moves forward as New York remains the world's most congested urban area, with peak traffic speeds averaging just 11 mph.

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[–] 105 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

This is great. People complaining on social media aren’t New Yorkers. We have the best mass transit in the nation. Fuck cars. What we want are more bike and footpaths and less time at the crosswalk.

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  • [–] 48 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    The amount of crying and screaming around this has been insane. On IG, you'd think from the comments that downtown Manhattan is a mecca of families and small businesses, and not the Financial District.

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  • [–] 79 points 2 years ago (39 children)

    This is great work by the city leadership. It's taken decades to get this system in place and the city sorely needs it.

    Congestion charges work. It's not a new thing nor an untried approach to mitigating extreme congestion from unfettered use of the city streets.

    The weird part about all of this, to me anyway, is that tools and congestion charges are very much an economic and Libertarian style solution, but strangely conservatives often fight them tooth and nail. Isn't their whole schtick that the market driven solutions are best? The city owns the streets. The use of the streets are in high demand. So, the city puts a price on a resource. That's just econ basics.

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  • [–] 39 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Perhaps my memory is bad, but as far as I can recall, they jettisoned all ideology after the Tea Party (funded by Libertarian billionaires) fizzled. So, pretty much about the time Obama took office. It's mostly racism and tribal identity now.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    I think they just whittled down their ideology into the most privileged and selfish extreme. They do believe the insane things they spout like "tax is theft."

    I think you're right that the rank-and-file libertarians don't really think their ideology through or educate themselves on its flaws or alternatives, because it really is about identity. I'm pretty convinced that it always has been though. Conservative ideology is based on hierarchy, and they think the right outcomes result from having the proper social stratification— this is usually wealth-based.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Libertarians have no underlying principles other than doing whatever they want with no consequences.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    100%. Knew a Libertarian. Conversations about anything rooted in reality or logic were like pulling teeth.

    They thought people and businesses would pay to be connected to roads, and each one would pay for the upkeep of their own segment. They wouldn't charge anyone to use their roads, because they'd recoup the costs from businesses.

    Highways would be built through...uh, charity? Or maybe it was big businesses that'd need to ship goods across them. Every highway would be a toll highway, and it'd be beautiful. It'd be cheaper than paying taxes...

    /majorEyeRoll

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    [–] 38 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    There is one downside that I don’t think people consider enough when discussing congestion pricing:

    Trucks will now find alternate routes that will hurt poorer neighborhoods.

    Example: In order to go between New Jersey and Long Island, some trucks traditionally take routes through Manhattan as it is geographically faster to go crosstown than to detour north or south.

    In order to drive from New Jersey to Long Island, to avoid the new congestion pricing trucks will most likely take the George Washington Bridge, drive through the South Bronx, and come down into Queens via the Throggs Neck, Whitestone, or RFK Bridges.

    The South Bronx is about to absorb a LOT more of that traffic. Anyone taking the Major Deegan or Bruckner during rush hour knows it’s already beyond fucked with traffic.

    Now, the traditionally poorer residents of the South Bronx are about to experience more air pollution, more noise, more road repairs, and majorly slower travel time anywhere.

    Congestion pricing doesn’t remove the traffic, it just re-routes it into poorer neighborhoods.

    (NOTE: I am a NYC car owner and still for congestion pricing. NYC should be way more pedestrian and bike friendly and while this program has downsides, it is a step in the right direction.)

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Counter point. If the congestion pricing extended all the way through The Bronx, Queens, and The Mt. Vernon or Mt. Hebron (I honestly forgot which one is just north of The Bronx, and which one is upstate. Didn't live there for very long.) area, this wouldn't be an issue for any of the boroughs.

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    [–] 27 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    I would not want to drive in New York.

    Kansas City is nowhere near as dense as NYC, but I still get frustrated driving downtown around there, especially if there's construction.

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    [+] 27 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)
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    [–] 24 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Fees vary by vehicle type, with trucks and buses paying higher rates.

    I would have thought that single occupant cars should be paying the higher fees, and mass transportation like busses should pay lower fees.

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  • [–] 31 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    School and commuter buses are exempt. But if your local church is trying to drive a shuttle bus into Manhattan, it is going to face a charge

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (5 children)

    Personally I dont understand why they dont just remove all the street parking spots.

    That and establish maximum parking spots per building. Building has legal occupancy for 2000 people? Max 1% parking spots means theyre not allowed to have more than 20 car parking spots for the entire building.

    The point is to make cars the slowest, most expense, and most difficult mode of transport. Make it hell so that nobody would want to drive a car there because its miserable.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    That would invovle upgrading the subway to actually handle capacity along with a circular route, but that is currently beyond the capability of any American public transport development lol.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    There are a lot of two fare zones in the city limits. I understand the desire some people have to turn nyc into big amsterdam, but nyc is substantially larger than that city with substanitally less interconectedness. Hell, Holland is a country barely bigger than the NYC metropolitan area.

    If people had good reliable transit available, they would use it. The reality is that they do not. People who think nyc does either are not from there, or live in the privilged part that has tons of transit options.

    You cant force people, you have to offer better options. I agree, if cars were the slowest option people wouldnt use them. Guess what? They arent. Three bus transfers are. This is ignoring anyone who needs to travel outaide of the city limits as well.

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    [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    If you live in an RV or truck, you're screwed. But then if you drive a huge truck to deliver stuff, your company benefits more and destroys more than my driving my 1980 civic.

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