- He doesn't care about Constitutionally-protected rights
- He'll do this anyways, because it tees up a Supreme Court case on a fast track, or Congress just lets it happen.
- He wins either way
this post was submitted on 10 Dec 2024
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3b. He loves having these fights because he can say 'BUT THE IMMIGRANTS' and MAGA, because they don't actually understand anything about the American constitution or law, will back him because they'll believe it's just a bunch of liberals protecting criminal aliens.
The Supreme Court already ruled against birthright citizenship. The 14 Amendment overturned their decision. And Congress doesn’t have a say in the matter, because a constitutional amendment has to be approved by a supermajority of the states.
I get that people are in a bleak mood, but there are limits to what Trump and republicans can do.
That's true, but I think a lot of Americans tend to think of the constitution as being more powerful than it actually is.
Just like any other set of rules, it mostly comes down to how these are interpreted. The constitution itself had no autonomy... it depends on everyone agreeing on a certain interpretation of the words as well as agreeing to enforce this interpretation.
I'm not saying that it is logical or consistent, but the wording "...and subject to the jurisdiction thereof..." in the 14th amendment could have some VERY warped interpretations, if you really wanted to force it...
This feels like a Federalist Society test of an attack on the Constitution. If this works, and Trump can peel away Amendments, expect chaos. The 4th and 2nd will be taken early.
I'm surprised that the second would be even remotely considered. If the situation in the US itself isn't enough, I have a hard time seeing that happen. But, a fascist is a fascist, and the playbook is clear enough.
Their people will get to keep guns, but don't think queer people or immigrants will
Just wanted to point out, all members of the military and in public office take an oath to FIRST uphold and defend the constitution of the US, and then, to follow the presidents orders. If the president\president elect is passing policies or making edicts in violation of the constitution without an amendement first being passed by congress, then every elected official, and more importantly, all military officials, have the duty, right, and obligation to stop him and his co-conspirators, both foreign and domestic...
Nothing is sacred for them, and their words are only used to get what they want now.
The SCOTUS is stacked in Trump's favor. He's been openly racist, mysoginist and he is a rapist, and he won the presidency.
Don't hold your breath on anything that makes sense because the next year will be everything but normal.
Conservatives will shit and clean their ass with the constitution if that mean they can hurt people they don't like
If/when they start breaking the constitution, I'm going to make popcorn because I'm in Canada and it's about to pop off.
If there's ever a time or place to take up arms it's when the Constitution is being stomped on. If none of you stand up and take action at that point, I will be shocked, shocked I say!
I realize he's going to be president, but "Trump says" isnt news anymore. Man talks a lot of shit. I'll start to care when the "Trump does" is in the headline.
Give it about 6 weeks...
I LOVE the Constitution!*
*When it's used to DEFEND CHILD KILLERS!
He's never said that, as far as I'm aware. He has, however, overtly expressed interest in "suspending the Constitution".
I doubt he cares about actually ending birthright citizenship, he cares about being seen to be ending it. He's all about image, the worse the better. If the courts prevent it, or a later administration undoes his order, that's their problem, not his.
Well supreme court will allow parts of it to go through. Like children of unauthorized immigrants.
But, I'm gonna be optimistic and say that I think children legal immigrants will have birthright citizenship.
the constitution is just a flimsy piece of paper if nobody decides to enforce it
his string-pullers want this scotus to rule against the inevitable lawsuits.
The Supreme Court already ruled against birthright citizenship. The 14th Amendment was written to overturn their decision.
So if someone expects to be put in a camp what's the best way to move thier savings?
I thought jewelery but I recall the jews had everything taken even teeth. I don't know much about American history but I know the Japanese were not treated well either during ww2. Pretty sure many lost all thier stuff.
Only thing I can't think of is bury some gold like in Russian doll.
I think you can assume that anything on your person will be taken. Funds and property with a clear paper trail may or may not be grabbed. There are various ways to keep money anonymously, like numbered bank accounts and cryptocurrencies, but they are not simple or without their problems.
If you have anyone you really trust, who is not likely to also end up in a camp, you might consider transferring everything to them. It would be difficult for the government to take anything that does not actually belong to you.
Ideally, I would consult with both a lawyer and a financial consultant.
Long term money goes offshore short term money stays liquid and if you have people you trust it with as things look to be getting worse you may decide to transfer it to them.
The main goal is to deny value without fucking yourself over. And in that vein if you have significant gold in this country get it out or if you must bury it do so without your phone or car
Now is the time to talk to a money person
buy an asset yeah Bitcoin or gold make your bet I guess.
I'd love to see the relevant agencies simply ignore his unlawful order. Just let him sit there and stomp around like a toddler demanding but with nobody listening rather than treat it as valid with a lawsuit response.
And I'd like to be the King of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat.
You have waaaaay more confidence in these agencies than I do.
The reality is, with enough pressure even 'independent' heads of agencies can be replaced. Nobody wants to be in the firing line and the focus of Trump (and his followers) rage.
Well I only said like to, not expect to.
I would expect someone to file a suit to block it, but just ignoring him I suspect would cause him to absolutely lose his shit.
I mean, I think the part about unauthorized immigrant will go though, but I'm gonna be optimistic and say that children of legal immigrants are gonna be fine. Fingers Crossed
Dictators want to dictate. Fuck the rules.
I've never gotten an entirely satisfying answer as to what "ending birthright citizenship" actually means in practice.
On the one hand, in the Mother Jones article "The Plot Against Birthright Citizenship", it says, "The proposed rule would instruct federal agencies to deny passports and Social Security numbers to children born to immigrants, unless one of the parents is a citizen or green card holder." and it further says, "The fact that Trump referred to a foreign invasion in his campaign video, he [assistant professor of law Evan Bernick] adds, suggests they [the Trump team] might be anticipating litigation and trying to 'boost as much as possible their very minimal odds.'"
On the other hand, in this article it reads, "Under his policies, Trump said, all [members of mixed families] could be deported, including those who have attained citizenship status." and in the aforementioned Mother Jones article it further says, "[According to Trump attourney John Eastman] That right [to citizenship] should be contingent on 'a total and exclusive allegiance' to the United States"
...Which makes it seem a bit ambiguous as to whose citizenship is being called into question. I would decidedly not be affected by the proposed rule, but I was born outside of the USA to one natural-born citizen and one non-citizen, and I have never personally permanently resided in the USA — and since people already question or deny that I'm a "real American" on the basis of me not being from the USA, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if this would at some point in the future translate to my US citizenship actually getting revoked outright. So I don't think people like me are "in the sights" of the "neo-Know-Nothings" at the present moment, but I do sort of worry we will be, given that "total and exclusive allegiance" remark.
Sent from Mdewakanton Dakota lands / Sept. 29 1837
Treaty with the Sioux of September 29th, 1837
"We Will Talk of Nothing Else": Dakota Interpretations of the Treaty of 1837
…Which makes it seem a bit ambiguous as to whose citizenship is being called into question.
I think uncertainty is the point.
Yes this is just noise, but if it were not, would this mean that all individuals born after adoption have to take citizenship exams and be naturalized? Even Bubba who's family has been here since the French owned Louisiana?
Or is this a "grandfather clause" kinda thing?
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