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[–] 335 points 2 years ago (10 children)

I remember when I had my clearance, we were told anything we worked on was classified for a minimum of like 75 years, unless it was declassified earlier. I remember because they told is if we were 18, we could potentially legally talk about our work at the age of 93, assuming the classification wasn't extended.

Anyway, part of that briefing was the outlining of consequences should we leak any classified information. We were told if the information we leaked resulted in the death of an intelligence officer anywhere in the world, we could and likely would be tried for treason. And the punishment for treason during a time of war (Global War on Terror, amiright) could be death.

So... He'll be charged with treason like any of us plebs would have been, right? Right?!

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  • [–] 66 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    They were probably blustering about the treason thing.

    Because "treason" was specifically abused by Britain, the US Constitution puts specific requirements on the crime of treason. In particular, there have to be two independent eyewitnesses to the treasonous act. Meanwhile, the Espionage Act has no such prosecutorial burden, and the penalties are just as severe...

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago

    It's been a while since I had it, so you may be right. Though, I do remember they were very specific it would only meet treason if it resulted in an intelligence officers death, but I don't remember under what Act or law they were interpreting from.

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  • [–] 26 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    they will probably make an exception for him because he’s a Very Good Businessman. just think about what he may have gotten in exchange for the list of spies. perhaps some compliments from putin, maybe even a pat on the back.

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  • [–] 239 points 2 years ago (2 children)
  • [–] 114 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    And keep in mind, all of this is what we know publicly. Imagine all we don't.

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    [+] 59 points 2 years ago (3 children)
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    [–] 58 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    This is why he needs to face a fireing squad not prison.

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  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago (3 children)
  • [–] 46 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Correlation does not indicate causation.

    Though in this case, I think it does. It really does.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    You mean post hoc ergo propter hoc.

    And the argument here isn't logical, it's heuristic.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Please explain what this means? The rhetoric concepts I mean, not the subject matter

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    Post hoc ergo propter hoc means "after this therefore because of this". The name of the fallacy is the claim the arguer is making, that because one event happened soon after another event, it was caused by the earlier event. A common example is that deciduous trees lose their leaves after it gets cold, so they lose their leaves because it gets cold. The actual reason is complex and has little to do with temperature. It's partly that day lengths get shorter and the leaves no longer can absorb enough energy to match their costs.

    It is similar to correlation doesn't equal causation, but is more specific that it has to do with two events that happen at similar times, which is specifically called out in the tweet.

    That the argument is heuristic and not logical is that logic has a pretty limited use - where you can reasonably agree on premises to make a specific type of argument that relies on how that argument is constructed. Heuristics rely on probability, what's the most likely outcome given a set of preceding causes, or what are the most likely causes given a following event. For example most problems in my line of work are from loose connections, so it's the first thing I look for when something is going wrong. You can't say "because I see this event it is logically this cause" but you can say "When I've seen this event before 80% of the time it was cause A, 15% of the time it was cause B, and 5% of the time it was cause C. So I'll check them in order of likelihood"

    So the tweet isn't making a logical claim. They're saying it's unlikely that Trump talked to Putin about informants, requested the list of informants, had a list of informants in an unsecured place, but somehow wasn't related to those informants being compromised.

    EDIT: Also Wikipedia has a better explanation of pheph: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

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  • [–] 39 points 2 years ago (1 child)
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    [–] 37 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

    I'm not surprised that Trump has obviously committed high treason. That has been blindingly obvious since that Helsinki meet.

    I'm surprised that he did it in a way that didn't leave a trail of evidence leading him to being executed.

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    [–] 36 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 36 points 2 years ago

    BuT rUsSiA iS nOt An EnEmY!!1

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  • [–] 27 points 2 years ago* (3 children)

    Makes me wonder how far gone our intelligence community is. These are some of their own and they've done nothing to slow the spread of authoritarian bullshit. Ten bucks says they want an autocracy because there is some power they think they can weild that they think will give them complete control.

    takes off tin foil hat

    Wtf how did this get here? Damn aplphabets.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    I think its most likely that these orgs have factions competing for power and personal advantage,some people are going to think Trump is going to further their interests, others not so much. Some real ghouls probably recognize that Trump only wants power for himself which is a threat to their power.

    I'm not an expert though, I just had a very interesting conversation with a civilian Air Force consultant, who said that his org wasn't very factional, but was very hierarchical. He was worried about very regressive figures coming to power because it affected the whole org, saying that the military had to stay cutting edge or we would face defeat, and hardcore conservative ideologues, or people like Trump who only care about their own wealth and status, tend to resist advancements and new methods.

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    [–] 27 points 2 years ago

    yet he walks. there is more behind him than we are allowed to see

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago

    We could power a clean future by attaching a turbine to Tom Clancy’s corpse.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago

    And this is just one amongst hundreds of scandals of similar severity

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago

    Fuck Trump, Fuck Russia, Fuck the CIA.

    Its wild how a very rational anger and fear and concern about a Trump presidency becomes a very irrational support for many corrupt and downright evil organizations responsible for millions of deaths in the name of imperialism and profit.

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Man. What a traitor. Anyway, is anyone down to start America 2.0 somewhere else with me if he wins?? We'll call it "no billionaires or Republicans allowed world" or something and our president will be the cutest femboy judged by votes obviously

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    [–] 18 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Are there any sources for this?

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  • [–] 29 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    yup, dumps talked about most of this publicly, and the rest is confirmed by intelligence agencies and news outlets.

    "On 7/31/2019 Trump has a private meeting with Putin.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/04/trump-has-spoken-privately-with-putin-least-times-heres-what-we-know-about-conversations/

    On 8/3/2019, just 3 days after his private meeting with Putin, Trump issues a request for a list of top US spies.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/white-house-asks-for-list-of-top-intel-officials-amid-intelligence-shakeup

    -By 2021 the CIA reports an unusually high number of their agents are being captured and/or being .murdered.

    https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575384-cia-admits-to-losing-dozens-of-informants-around-the-world-nyt/#:~:text=Leading%20counterintelligence%20officials%20issued%20a,were%20being%20captured%20and%20executed.

    -During the search executed at Mar A Lago the FBI find more documents with lists of US informants on them.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/10/politics/mar-a-lago-search-informant-documents-donald-trump/index.html "

    i'm pretty sure it's an open case that prosecutors are looking into.

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    [–] 17 points 2 years ago

    And it changed nothing. Vote this fucker out of your lives.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    There used to be a time when this kind of shit led to a swift execution. Now we can't even get the fuckface in jail.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    There used to be a time when this kind of shit led to a swift execution.

    Dude, that's absolutely not true. After the Civil Fucking War numerous rebel generals went right back home and ran for high office. Others got jobs as professors or retired to lavish estates that were never broken up. Still others founded the KKK. The Feds let it happen then.

    Also, let's not forget Reagan feeding the Iranians intel during hostage negotiations. Or Bush evacuating Saudi officials after 9/11. Or any number of intelligence leaks from Congressman Nunes, Michael Flynn, Tom DeLay, the list goes on.

    The only people we execute in this country are scapegoats, civil rights activists, and the poor. Actual traitors get to walk damned near every time.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 years ago

    Non Trump supporters are aware of this and already aren't voting for him. It's his supporters that will ignore this because they don't care. They will vote for him regardless. Lots of them are voting against their own best interests.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    You don't understand, he's not a traitor to everyone, he's standing up for 'Real America' against the real enemies, the libruls, the immigrants and the queers.

    If you can't understand that then you must not be A Real American.

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    [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Probably why tankies LOVE diaper don so much.

    Besties 🫶

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