this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
707 points (96.6% liked)

solarpunk memes

2736 readers
601 users here now

For when you need a laugh!

The definition of a "meme" here is intentionally pretty loose. Images, screenshots, and the like are welcome!

But, keep it lighthearted and/or within our server's ideals.

Posts and comments that are hateful, trolling, inciting, and/or overly negative will be removed at the moderators' discretion.

Please follow all slrpnk.net rules and community guidelines

Have fun!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 hours ago

my mind rapidly shifts from defeatism to optimism practically every week

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 hours ago

I was on a road trip this weekend, and we had to clean the windshield 5 times. So it looks like the bugs are making a comeback thanks to restrictions on Monsanto products.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

Indoor farming isn't scalable. At least not with the models that are being done now. They work for niche crops, but not staple carb sources like potatoes and grains. They can be profitable, but aren't a catch all solution.

The ocean cleaning projects also don't scale. We should be focused on keeping the trash from getting into it first by switching to recyclable and biodegradable packaging and forcing the fishing industry to switch back to hemp nets.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 32 minutes ago

staple crops have too many subsidies to be a good source of comparison, and staple crops aren't very healthy for people in general.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 hours ago

Idk about your first point but The Ocean Cleanup, has been doing great work creating plastic filters for the worlds most polluting river. I understand not creating the waste in the first place would be most efficient but this organization is doing a good job cleaning up the mess.

https://theoceancleanup.com/media-gallery/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 hours ago

I don't think that scalable and profitable are goals of indoor farming. It's done for self sustainability.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

kind of an ironic choice of template for the message

[–] [email protected] 1 points 15 minutes ago

Disposable diaper use is going down, and a decreasing proportion is getting landfilled.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

Building out more and more renewables doesn't mean anything if emissions aren't falling - and they aren't. Since 2021, nearly 4 full years, the world has closed less than 1% of active coal power plants.

The buildout of renewables has arrived hand-in-hand with an increase in total energy usage. The energy mix has improved greatly in favor of renewables, tons of CO2 per KWh is way down, unfortunately we just use more KWh so total emissions are still rising.

Everything in the meme is a leading indicator for positive change, which is wonderful, but the actual change needs to materialize on a rather short timetable. Stories about happy first derivatives don't count for much.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago

Didn't Britian just close down it's last coal plant? Also Colorado is switching away as well. I thought natural gas was replacing coal?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 23 hours ago

From your link it, for me, it seems like emissions are platooning, similar to a technological S curve. Even if China and India are growing exponentially, reduction in other countries are enough to slow down the process significantly (specially if you zoom in in the last 10 years).

It’s very hard to predict change, but I suspect the deprecation of solutions that emit lots of emissions is about to skyrocket.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (2 children)

Since 2021, nearly 4 full years, the world has closed less than 1% of active coal power plants.

Closing will come later, when alternatives are widely available. What renewable energy does currently - at least here - is forcing those plants temporarily out of the market, especially during summer months and windy weather. The plants will exist and stay ready in case of need for well over a decade, maybe even two - but they will start up ever more rarely.

Technically, the deal is: we don't have seasonal energy storage. Short term storage is being built - enough to stabilize the grid for a cold windless hour, then a day, then a week... that's about as far as one can go with batteries and pumped hydro.

To really get the goods one has to add seasonal storage or on-demand nuclear generation. The bad news is that technologies for seasonal storage aren't fully mature yet, while nuclear is expensive and slow to build. There's electrolysis and methanation, there's iron reduction, there are flow batteries of various sorts, there's seasonal thermal storage already (a quarter step in the right direction)...

...but getting the mixture right takes time. Instead of looking at the number of closed plants, one should look at the sum of emissions. To remain hopeful, the sum should stop growing very soon.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 17 hours ago

Instead of looking at the number of closed plants, one should look at the sum of emissions

That was in the link I posted. Emissions are Currently at record highs.

Slowing growth isn't enough; we need significant, sustained, reductions in the very near future, and negative emissions and sequestering carbon in the medium term.

None of that is happening at a scale that would inspire optimism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 16 hours ago

One technology that's being developed that can help is high-voltage superconducting DC power, which can send power thousands of miles. So if it's a sunless, windless day in the Northeast they can send power from the Midwest to stabilize the grid.

Also, I'm very bullish on Iron-Air batteries for long-term grid-level storage.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 23 hours ago

We might already have reached peak carbon emissions. There's also the thing where renewables are so much cheaper that it's in most countries best self interest to build renewables.

The thing the world is doing now is more energy but the cheapest one is electricity so more electricity. The duck curve is an energy storage opportunity that's being taken advantage of more and more. Things are heading in the right direction but it's not fast enough.

The next emissions on the chopping block are household heating and cement and low-med industrial heat with more advanced heat pumps or heat pumps set up in series.

I've decided to become cautiously optimistic recently the more I learn about how science is advancing the renewables despite governments sometimes being in the way.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 17 hours ago

This is what I’m banking on, things get bad but that would motivate us more and it would become easier and easier to address.

Having said that, I think degrowth is the correct way; the above is risky but better than doom and gloom.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago (7 children)

I worry that climate defeatism has become a religion, and it will be difficult to separate it from policy discussion going forward.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Things just shifted instantly from "nothing needs to be done" to "nothing can be done."

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

The Climate Denier's prayer:

The climate isn't changing,
and even if it was,
It's not humans that are causing it,
and even if we are,
It's better for the economy if we ignore it,
and even if that's not true,
There's nothing we can do about it anyways.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why perchance has the interest in a self-sustaining life skyrocketed you think? Could it be because people can barely afford food anymore?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Not just that, it’s a combination of factors. Sustainable thinking, independence, a connection to the world and self and much more.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago

By the power invested in me by, well, nobody whatsoever, can I just take a minute to say, let's all cool down a little in the comments!

There's a lot of arguing against:

  • The idea that acknowledging the tragic reality of climate change makes you defeatist
  • The idea that because we have had some great advantages in green tech we can sit back and let climate change fix itself

I don't see anyone making those arguments here though! Just lots of people concerned about climate change with different skews of how positive/negative we should feel.

Personally, I swing between powerful optimism and waking in terror at 3:00am for the future we're hurtling towards. I'm sure other people are the same, so let's just be friendly to the fact that other people are in different vibes to us.

There are some people working together very well right now to dismantle the climate, so let's all remember that when we're talking with each other.

Peace and love!

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Is it defeatist to face the facts that we have released more carbon in 2023 than any other year? Is it defeatist to realize not only are we polluting non-stop, we are also destroying the oceans, we are destroying ecosystems and we are destroying ourselves at a rate that we can't control? That a majority of people are content living their lives this way if it means they don't have to make the hard choice of having and using less? We're already well past 1°C and are not going to slowdown it seems until its too late.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 day ago (3 children)

CO2 emissions of the world excluding China have declined. Chinas emissions did fall in Q2 of this year.

Seriously China has economic trouble, which slows down energy demand growth. The US has run the massive inflation reduction act, which seems to be working somewhat well and Europe was hit hard by the energy crisis reducing emissions in the EU through lower consumption and faster green roll out and Russia as its fossil fuel exports fall. On top of that green technologies like solar panels, wind trubines, electric vehicles, heat pumps and so forth become cheaper all the time. It is certainly possible that we can achieve peak emissions soon.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I approve of the overall message but indoor farming is kind of insane in the present day. It uses incredible amounts of energy and our scarce building materials to do something we can do much more easily outside.

Long term it might be important but I don’t think it makes sense until we solve the current energy crisis.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Using solar panels to power artificial lighting so you can vertically stack farms directly inside cities doesn't make any sense from a sustainability perspective.

But greenhouses in the suburbs that are tied into the city's thermal grid and seasonal thermal energy store is the future of agriculture IMO.

By enclosing fields in greenhouses you decrease the land, water, pesticide, and fertilizer requirements, while also eliminating fertilizer runoff and the possibility of soil depletion from tilling. By tying a greenhouse into a thermal grid the greenhouse can act as a solar thermal collector in the summer while maybe even condensing the water that evaporates through the plants for reuse. Then you can use that same heat to heat homes during the winter or extend the growing season in the greenhouse even further.

https://www.renewableenergymagazine.com/storage/world-s-largest-thermal-energy-storage-to-20240409

https://www.dlsc.ca/

https://ag.umass.edu/greenhouse-floriculture/fact-sheets/heat-storage-for-greenhouses

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/152874/a-greenhouse-boom-in-china

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/150070/almerias-sea-of-greenhouses

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2022/netherlands-agriculture-technology/ (Yes I know they use artificial lighting in a lot of these, and yes I know a lot of the value of their agricultural exports comes from flowers, but the point is it's another example of large scale greenhouse use. Also they do still produce quite a bit of food in a small area, in addition to the flowers.)

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Initial upfront costs are heavy but you would be saving all of the transport and logistics costs for the lifetime of the facility. Aeroponics are also a lot less resource intense than growing in the dirt.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 16 hours ago

Has anyone broken down the difference in energy between artificially creating growing conditions in the middle of cities compared to just transporting the food from where it grows easily? Trains and ships which transport most food are incredibly energy efficient per ton transported

Trains can transport one ton of goods 470 miles on one gallon of fuel and ships can transport one ton of goods 600 miles on one gallon of fuel. If a urban farm can produce one ton of food it needs to consume less than a few gallons of fuel's worth of energy in lighting and other city-specific infrastructure in order to come out ahead of growing food where it grows best

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Not in energy requirements when the sun is free and electricity and lightbulbs are not.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

It certainly hasn't defeated MY adoption expectations, and don't even talk to me about stock share prices for anything involving solar.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Acknowledging reality is not the same thing as defeatism or "not doing anything." I'd argue that putting your head in the sand and ignoring news/information you don't like is more damaging and closely related to the majority of the world's efforts over the past 50+ years.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Thinking everything is fine leads to apathy. Thinking there's nothing we can do leads to apathy. The correct thought is that it's bad, but we can fix it.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›