this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2024
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It's a situation that I have been expecting for a while, but I wasn't fully ready to accept it. Specifically it's one of my LGBTQ friends who honestly believes in the democrats will protect them and their partner. I have tried to make the point that both parties are eroding any sort of civility towards all marginalized groups, but fear seems to drive them more than logical observations. They make the excuse that change doesn't happen over night and that the left continues to grow and will have meaningful affects down the road. I fundamentally just don't agree with that idea and vocalize it regularly. More and more it is ending up in a circular argument where I am painted as unrealistic and my rhetoric (leftist rhetoric) is doing more harm than good because it promotes distrust in the only system we have to work with. I try to tell them it's kind of the whole point. We gotta start somewhere if we want to see a better, more representative system, but they are so hung up on the immediate future while simultaneously saying that my idealistic feelings are shortsighted and I cant expect change in the immediate future... The double-talk is wild, I know.

I am trying my hardest to stop from engaging at this point because on the most basic level we agree on a lot of stuff, but they are just way to wrapped up in the fear mongering of the democratic party. They know that the two party system is broken, they know that something drastic needs to change, but they also think that they are powerless to do anything except choose the lesser evil. It pains me because I am watching them do the same shit past generations have done, where they give up on their ideals for the sake of preserving the current status quo that they benefit from. I am legitimately watching them imply "fuck you, got mine" under the guise of civic duty and I hate it. I want nothing more than to be able to finally say "I told you so" without being a smug asshole about it and ruining our friendship.

Thanks for reading my rant. It's probably a bit disjointed, but the frustration is boiling over and I needed to vent to the only group of people that seems to understand the hopelessness of being a disenfranchised leftist.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Honesty I’ve learned to just shut the fuck up about politics when talking to PoC or LGBTQ friends. For some reason a straight white guy saying “ACTUALLY YOU WILL LIKELY NEVER BE TRULY SAFE IN OUR LIFETIME” is not received well.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 15 hours ago

Yeah, I specifically avoid that sentiment because I cannot control the way things I say will be interpreted. I would much rather keep my mouth shut because I'm not in the business of unintentionally offending people I care about.

Instead I try to convey it through the lens of my own experience to talk about the fears I have that lead me to feel how I do. Like how concerned I am about what is the next evil thing we are okay with now that we as a society have effectively given a pass to genocide enablers again.

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 16 hours ago (5 children)

I need to rewatch The Matrix.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

The current sticking point with my wife is that it's about getting control of the Supreme Court back, given the assumption that Alito and Thomas will retire/die and (a) the Democrats won't appoint Alito's/Thomas's preferred successors in the name of unity, and (b) the Republicans won't hold open the vacancy to get concessions and/or wait until a Republican president comes into office as they successfully did with Garland. Refusing to budge because of Palestine is "making this about me" and failing to understand that Harris needs the Jewish vote in PA (I pointed out that she also needs the Muslim vote in Michigan, no response).

Nobody else, even fairly close friends, has opined on politics around me and I don't bring it up, so I'm not sure what everyone around me is thinking.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I'm trying to leave the US primarily because of Alito and Thomas.

Obgerfell will likely be overturned next session. It will be horrific.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Kinda feeling like I should've skipped town when I had the chance but instead I chose to build a life here under the assumption that things could be fixed.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 15 hours ago

Yeah, that is the major sticking point I have seen as well. Which I understand except for the other things you just laid out. I can't comfortably trust that anyone of these ghouls is going to do right by citizens.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

I don't get it, look at what they've been saying about the palestinian genocide, then look at what they're doing. How could anyone trust them??

[–] [email protected] 15 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

Their neurotic defense or Biden, even now is completely unacceptable. No one should lead s country if they cannot complete a coherent sentence on live TV without a teleprompter.

Pokemon Blue MAGA bitch asses

[–] [email protected] 15 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

The apparent uselessness of the "commander-in-chief" goes to show just how useless the electoral theatre is. It doesn't matter if the hood ornament is a donkey or an elephant the harvester keeps going.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 13 hours ago

They are extremely powerful when Trump is in charge and are powerless when he is not. He may as well still be president.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

I made the point today actually that I am honestly concerned where we go from here now that as a society we have pretty much accepted genocide.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 14 hours ago

I don't know how much solace this is but genocide already has been an integral part of us-european societies for centuries. The only new thing is that the cracks in the foundation are becoming bigger and more visible. And I don't know how the beast is going to lash out on it's death bed.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

USAmericans don't care about foreigners at all so lying about them doesn't even register

[–] [email protected] 22 points 16 hours ago

Obama lying about holding Wall Street accountable for the crash also didn't register. They go by vibes, and they forget any revelation about any lies that happened more than a day ago.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 18 hours ago (13 children)

I am painted as unrealistic

This shit gets me. I get called "too idealistic" and my response is what does that even mean? I think it's too idealistic for the few to benefit from the work of the many. Seems unsustainable which fits right in to the definitions of idealistic. I think it's idealistic for the Dems to expect a vote when they can't give even token concessions. "Unrealistic" get the fuck out of here 70 years ago we'd be blowing ourselves up in a world war for some crusty declining nobles (and soon we might be told to do it again!) now we watch complete strangers appear to entertain us for 30 seconds and evaporate forever on tiktok wtf do we know about realistic.

This hollow "community" of Democrats will happily cannibalize anyone without a second thought. The least I expect from my lib friends is to vote third party or shut up. Capitalism is a disease. Thanks for ranting so I could rant too

[–] [email protected] 29 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Whenever any of them tell me to "grow up" I can't help but think of the Dead Kennedys line: "I'd rather stay a child and keep my self-respect if being an adult means being like you."

[–] [email protected] 19 points 16 hours ago

Seriously. Grow up and accept genocide and ecological collapse. Like a responsible adult. Sickening

[–] [email protected] 22 points 17 hours ago

Whenever some liberal glibly tells me "the world isn't all sunshine and rainbows" I want to just scream IS-OUGHT at them until they shatter like glass.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 19 hours ago (8 children)

I’m just grateful for my friend who listens to my rants and admits I know way more about it than him.

Unfortunately he’s still just voting for Kamala shrug-outta-hecks

Every time we hang out is basically:

[–] [email protected] 24 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

We don't drink much these day but I do turn into this when I'm drunk. I remember back before we were married, my wife's best friend used to call me "your communist boyfriend."

Good thing we don't drink a lot now, in the current political climate I'd probably jump on the Hamas love train and death to (various evil entities) slogans too hard and get "your terrorist supporting husband" instead.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Change never arrives because the people who own the rest of us suddenly feel charitable.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 18 hours ago

Fascism has never willingly or peacfuly conceded.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (5 children)

Not everyone around me in the northeast is friendly, let alone a comrade, but I'm very glad to be far away from Silicon Valley liberals at long last.

I was very nearly approaching explosive-shouting-replies to the smug, arrogant, and even occult shit they'd keep saying to me, unprompted and unsolicited, especially after dae le epic "AI" hype waves took off.

https://futurism.com/openai-employees-say-firms-chief-scientist-has-been-making-strange-spiritual-claims

[–] [email protected] 14 points 16 hours ago

That article is from last year and since then NVDIA is now "worth" 11% of the US GDP as a consequence, so I can kind of understand how you can see this as some sort of "miracle".

What is the opposite of capitalism realism? Capitalist absurdism? We are increasingly seeing events and trends that defy even previous well established mainstream rethoric.

Surely they're already believing or soon will turn into the old too big to fail rethoric, everyone prepares for the crash that never comes. When it does come its not a crash at all but a "pullback" only. The line only goes up, you may lose all your money but as long as Blackrock servers keep running the HFT algos Wall Street will be open every weekday at 9am.

At some point yeah, its like believing no matter what happens the church will always be there etc. There is some argument the closer we are to climate collapse the more we will regress towards fantasy escapist beliefs. The world is shit but AI will save us is just what a 14th century peasant would be saying about the church and god during the Bubonic plague. We haven't changed.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (2 children)

Yeah I was about to make a similar post - just had a big debate with some older family friends at a party my parents had that are die-hard dems (which was nice, as they're way further left then most other people there).

They were aghast when I said I wasn't voting blue, and had no idea who Claudia or the PSL are, of course.

Got a lot of "this is the most important election ever" and "if he wins democracy is over" of course. But the one that really chapped my biscuits was saying that if he wins, then [my family member] will lose access to reproductive health care and IVF in particular.

So I said yeah right, neither side is going to change a damn thing about that, because they both see it as way too valuable of a carrot/stick to give up campaigning and fundraising on it. If the dems care so much about it, why haven't they actually done anything about it?

"Well Biden's wanted to, but he's been hamstrung by the extremist right!"

So what about those years when he had full congressional majority?

"Oh well yeah, I mean I guess he could have done more there..."

And then we got called away to the rest of the party and never got to continue.

Bonus points for my insistence that both parties intend on continuing the genocide - but ofc he is going to do it worse somehow. When I said I'm not going to vote for Genocide Light™️, they said, "Hell yeah I am! It's better than the other option!", and I sadly beat a dead horse a little more about there actually being more options available and maybe you actually don't have to put your stamp of approval on genocide-with-rainbow-flag-characteristics.

Also bonus-bonus points for one of the two (very sweet, kickass person generally) asking "So what does genocide mean again?" in a completely honest, non-hostile way, indicating that they simply had not engaged with even the thought of such a thing happening before this conversation.

And these are the two that always get in trouble for being too vocal about their left-ish political opinions at these functions. agony-soviet

[–] [email protected] 11 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

But the one that really chapped my biscuits was saying that if he wins, then [my family member] will lose access to reproductive health care and IVF in particular.

It's always something like this that they only just realized could tangentially affect them or someone they know. Meanwhile my position is with regards to the overall systemic shortcomings that I feel are just as important even if they don't apply to me. Obviously I care about reproductive rights even tho my partner and I are both sterile (by choice), but I want those rights for everyone else even after I leveraged them for myself!

So what about those years when he had full congressional majority?

They are never ready to answer that, or they just punt the issue to the next scapegoat.

Bonus points for my insistence that both parties intend on continuing the genocide...

Yeah, this was a point I tried to make one time and instead of the "other guy is worse" I got the "Kamala isn't Joe" line. Which made my brain reboot and I don't remember after that, lol.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

ofc he is going to do it worse somehow

Push libs on this and they no response: just how, exactly, will he be worse? What specific actions would he do? Because right now we’re pretty much at the limit of what any administration can reasonably do.

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

a lot of people want to believe someone is coming to save them.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

For me it's the whole "the left is continuing to grow"

Liberals have been shifting to the right for years. The democratic president is endorsed by dick fucking cheyney, is running on more cruelty on the border, and has completely given up even discussing universal Healthcare, and has completely dropped the ball on abortion.

The liberals are objectively getting worse which is to be expected when their main strategy is justnconceding to republicans on everything.

And it doesn't even bother liberals, they'll tell you with a straight face that bidens the most pro environemnt pro union president in history you can tell them "were drilling more oil than anyone ever anywhere and every time there's a strike you liberals keep saying it's a Russian hoax to hurt democrats"

And they just roll their eyes and fucking act like they're so morally superior your real world examples don't count.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 20 hours ago (5 children)

And they just roll their eyes and fucking act like they're so morally superior your real world examples don't count.

UUUUUUUGH!

Yeah its the smugness that gets me the most. Especially my debate lord friends where I almost hear the deep inhale they take before spouting off about the systemic limits.... Of systems they refuse to uproot out of fear of losing access to amazon prime.

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