A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
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If I'm still getting paid from this with little to no task to do. That seems like an ideal job to me. Even better away from people.
The Japanese are one of the few countries worthy of even more pity than us Americans when it comes to slaving for and being defined by their vocation.
I agree with you completely, but people who don't play the meaningless game of career trajectory are literally shunned by family there for it.
Not to sound too Korean..... but, that's kinda the social repercussion of electing war criminals, then the children of war criminals, and the grandchildren of war criminals to lead your country.
Modern Japan is a weird poly-sci experiment examining what would happen if you took guns away from a fascist government.
To skirt Canadian employment laws, a previous employer gave me unrealistic targets and even when I acheived them she would say I'm underperforming. This exists in every country. Employers will always find a way to make it look like the employee quit of their own volition.
Sounds a lot like Amazon. Hope you're doing better now.
I think I would be resentful enough to tough it out for a while and try to force their hand, but I might be giving myself too much credit. I'm pretty rebellious toward authority and would want to jam a thumb in their eye (metaphorically).
I'd be watching Twitch all day. These guys are dumb.
In the immortal words of that dumbo from Blizz "do you guys not have phones?"
If you leave me in a room and give me no tasks while still paying me, you've got me on salary to slack. And I will outperform everyone. Or no one, I'm not sure which one.
And honestly figuring that out is probably not in my job description anymore.
Seems nice at first, but having worked jobs with nothing to do, time passes so slow. It’s painful.
Pick up a hobby, read a book. Not sure how Japan or other countries are living, but one thing we still have in the USA are public libraries. We can download an app and check out books. For free. There is a lot more stuff at the actual library, but downloading books and reading them for money sounds like something I can retire doing. I take book reading days at my current job. As long as I put in "8 hours" of work they don't care how I spend my 8 hours.
Yup. I used to work at a toy store in my local mall that was just not doing business. Anytime I worked, I'd get maybe 5 customers a shift, and these were like 10-6 shifts.
I was so bored I felt like I could cry just to pass the time. There were a couple times where I straight up took a nap behind the counter because I was so tired and bored.
If you know they are just trying to get you to quit and don't actually want you to do anything, I imagine it's easier than a job where you have to worry about how you appear to bosses and others. The facade of being productive itself can be taxing.
But it also depends how much leeway they give to do whatever. If you know you can just stay up all night and come in to sleep 8 hours, the time could pass pretty quickly...
Yep. There is a reason why "layoff-by-boredom" exists and works. It's uncomfortable for most us to be bored.
I'd take slow and nothing to do over getting worked to the bone daily every time, I've had both. I have an active imagination, I manage.
You don't have to choose between the two evils though. There are just normal jobs.
And company has cameras. Where I live, most monitor workers 24/7. So they would that especially while trying to get rid of you.
Of course, they say it's for security and that's what you sign for, so they can't simply grab screen of you on phone and throw you out...however, suddenly management gets super instinct.
Time to work on my screenplay/book/stand-up routine/music!
"But hey, at least we just kick people out the door >in the states."
What kind of dumb fuck shit is this author to think that's its a better option to up and fire someone instead of putting someone in a room with no work and paying them until they find a new job on their own?
Some people adore the taste of boot
I think we're misunderstanding the rooms here. Everyone in the comments is saying "ooooh, I'd love that!" But imagine, the company gives you a tough but manageable quota of lines to write out by hand from the dictionary. Every day, 8 hours of writing. No phone, no music, no talking, no distractions, just quietly writing.
For anyone with a decent salaried job, that sounds horrible.
As a software developer writing out lines from the dictionary isn't part of my job description... they'd be violating my employment contract.
Bosses can't just demand you do something... your work needs to be stuff you agreed to do.
You probably have another duties ad required clause somewhere. If not, fine one dev to another, asking for hundreds of shitty useless QA tests. Same stupidity but if they can demonstrate a reasonable employee should finish X in Y time...
useless QA tests
As a QA professional, I take exception to that!
If you get into a situation like this please reach out to a labor lawyer - it's extremely likely that you could make a case for constructive dismissal.
so don't make your quota.
what are they going to do, fire you?
Exactly! You accidentally hit the nail on the head here.
The goal of the company is to get rid of employees. But they have permanent hire, so the bosses can't simply fire them without cause (and the bar for cause is very high in Japan). They want employees to quit, or they want employees to clearly fail to perform their duties.
What the employees want is to keep doing decent work at that company, probably until they retire at age 65. Permanent hire is highly treasured, for good reason. The reason permanent hire exists, and is so widespread as required by law, is that Japan values employee well-being more than it values the bosses' well-being. It's hard to get a big loan (for a house or apartment) if you don't have permanent hire. It's hard to get a high-paying job that doesn't have permanent hire. Many companies will not give you good positions if you're over the age of 35, too, which makes changing employers in your 40s-60s very challenging.
not an accident.
Responded before but if you don't hit the quota, they can probably fire you for cause (removing the severance, maybe pension etc.)
It's why all the back to office mandates sorta work (in terms of reducing headcount) you can't just show up and do nothing. If thr company can prove you're doing nothing, you can probably be terminated for cause. Happened to guys I know in a public, govt funded job with the reason as, iirc "time theft" and the union didn't really fight for them because the evidence was pretty damning that they hadn't done fuck all most mornings.
At most companies in Japan, them firing you would not eliminate your severance or pension. Those are typically mostly paid based on years worked, and not on how your employment terminates.
There tend to be extra payouts if you die on the job, at many companies, so it's not true to say that your termination status has zero impact, but typically it's a small adjustment.
That's not what's done, though.
Yes but comparing our Western lack of shame to Japanese culture is also pretty silly. My example is more balancing the scale.
For anyone it's horrible. Making someone do monotonous unproductive work is a form of torture. Just look at Sisyphus.
Bandai Namco has reportedly turned to the unspoken Japanese tradition of layoff-by-boredom by stuffing unwanted employees into oidashi beya, or "expulsion rooms."
Employees banished reassigned to oidashi beya are left to do nothing, or given menial tasks at best.
Ever since I watched Silicon Valley I'ved dreamed of being oidashi beya'd.
Like, you're just gonna give me zero work and a room to nap in for 8 hours along with a salary?
Fucking sold man. Let me live that Bighead life, dude is a nihilist spirit animal.
I actually heard a story (friend of a friend but whatever) where their American friend got oidashi beya'd and loved it so eventually the company did release him. I think it's such an interesting cultural difference when japan and us work culture, in many ways similar has this huge difference.
I wonder if it's more effective because of the mandatory after-work hangouts? I suppose if i were the work pariah that part would suck
I think they would just make it extra shitty. Nothing to do plus normal workplace rules: no sleeping, no private conversations or electronic devices, nothing not work related on the computer. Enjoy doing nothing nothing, where anything remotely resembling a mental escape is not allowed.
That sounds like a set of rules that could create, but in reality it's actually hard for them to pull it off. If you violate some of the rules, like if you're sitting in a room with nothing to do and then you pull out your phone and start texting, they could try to reprimand you and start the ball rolling on firing you. But then you get the union involved, and then you can gather evidence about the reasonableness of their effort to fire you. At some point it will go before a judge and the judge will ask your boss why they have to block you from having a cell phone if you were just sitting there doing nothing. When your boss can't answer, then you will win your lawsuit.
In other words, companies that try this tactic have to be very careful about exactly how the implement it, because labor law has a surprisingly large number of protections.
Yeah, I was in a similar position earlier this year. I barely made it a month. It's soul sucking, especially for someone like myself (I work in IT) who's used to staying active and engaged with my job. Felt like just waiting for time to pass so I could drive home. The fact that they made me drive to an office just to do nothing was like adding insult to injury.
Says them. What are they going to do, fire me?
Yes. And because you are technically at fault, there will be no compensation.
Eh even with being allowed to do things, it still sucks after a while. My job is seasonal with half the year being insanely busy and other half has practically nothing to do after work dries up. Luckily the bosses are chill about it, just show up and "pretend" to be busy and you can watch TV on your phone while "cleaning" the same tools or trays etc over and over. It's nice for a few weeks after the demanding busy season ends, but even with being allowed to listen to music or watch stuff on your phone, take extra breaks, chat with people as much as you want, it still gets old having to be at work 40 hours a week with nothing truly productive to do.
That's with good bosses that want to keep the workers happy, doing tedious mind numbing work for bosses that are trying to get you to quit sounds like hell. No thank you.
Same at my job. Busy half the year, dead the other half. I also have great bosses who understand we can't help it if there's no work to do.
It'd be pretty horrible being given nothing to do and knowing it's because they want you to quit. That's not a good environment for anyone. Eventually showing up out if spite will wear on you. What a shitty practice. I'm glad their being called out for it.
I would say managment should be individually fined by safe work commission for creating an unsafe work environment. But considering Japans long history of mental health issues and work, im unfortunately not expecting much.
In the past, many employees have won wrongful termination lawsuits for this type of behavior. In Japan, employers have a legal duty to give their employees some kind of work.
(The authors were lazy here. This is not a secret thing.)
It could potentially fall under power harassment rules depending upon the implementation, though I assume a company of any size would have their lawyers look over things first. People do successfully fight power harassment, especially in more recent times.
Oh thank god. Just when I thought the eastern games industry was mostly insulated from the massive layoffs plaguing the industry, Bandai Namco is here to let me down! Still in such a creative and batshit insane way, but very clearly the same kind of corporate fuck-up effecting the western industry.
Eastern work culture is often times boss level of toxic, but it's very hidden and subtle compared to western.
This would in no way shape or form work on me. In fact, I want to get a job in Japan now so they can do this to me and it would be the greatest thing ever
Make this position remote and I'll volunteer in a heartbeat. You'll never get me to quit.