this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
116 points (94.6% liked)

World News

32315 readers
866 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

The Dutch have seen their prison population decrease by more than 40% over the past 20 years. At the other end of the spectrum, Britain has the highest rate of incarceration in western Europe, and is struggling with an unprecedented prisons crisis. Britain’s minister of prisons, James Timpson, calls the Netherlands a source of inspiration.

What could the Dutch system teach the rest of the world? First, the declining prison population is not actually the result of recent policies by visionary politicians. Much of it is due to changes in reported crime and the nature of crime. As in many other western countries, the number of violent crimes has significantly dropped in the Netherlands in recent decades.

This does not necessarily mean that there is actually less crime overall, as Dutch criminologist Francis Pakes, professor at the University of Portsmouth, who has studied the reasons for the emptying Dutch prisons, told me: “There is less conventional, violent crime, like murder. On the other hand, a lot of conventional crime went online and is less visible. And it is quite possible that there is a kind of organised crime that we have little visibility on. But fewer serious cases are coming to the police and courts.” And so fewer people end up in jail.

But while the Dutch don’t have a model policy the world can copy, the overall Dutch attitude towards imprisonment could be instructive. According to Pakes, the Dutch are much more aware that a stay in prison does more harm than good. Society may be rid of a criminal for a while, but in many cases, criminals simply resume their activities when they leave prison. They may become more ruthless, due to the violent prison climate in which they have had to survive. And perhaps they have a wider criminal network that they built up behind bars.

This also applies to shorter sentences. Even these can completely turn an offender’s life upside down. You can lose your job, home and social network. And you rarely become a better person during a short stay in jail.

top 22 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (1 children)

but how will the us government get cheap slave labour? what will the poor for profit prisons do for money?

/s

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago

Sarcasm tag isn't necessary. Those who benefit from it see these as legitimate questions.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 month ago (2 children)

A good start is treating drug abuse as a health problem and not a criminal one

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

To do that, you first need to remove conservative and neoliberal politicians.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

The term neoliberal encompasses conservatives unless it's from the standpoint of a feudal society

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (2 children)

This article draws a very colorful picture of our country lol.

Fact of the matter is it is turning into a narco state quickly with drug related shootings and bombings happening almost daily.

Police and the justice system in general is understaffed.

So please do not learn from us, we're far from a role model.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do you have any articles discussing this? I'm interested to learn more as someone who doesn't live there.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542

You can find some more if you do a quick search on netherlands drug violence. Politicians are ignoring this problem completely. It's a growing problem in other European countries as well, Sweden for example.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

Its a massively growing problem in many European countries. The UK is having the same issues but some of the strictest laws on drugs in Europe.

At least you get some tax money back from it, unlike us.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago

Isn't that mostly a problem in the big, international ports / port cities? I mean, you can have empty prisons everywhere and still mot enough police and customs there

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't understand this article. Just last week the news here was that our prisons are overcrowded and we are considering leasing prison space in Eastern Europe. Maybe it's only certain types of prisons that have shortages? Guess I should look into it a bit more.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Guess I should look into it a bit more.

From the inside?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

when i was in amsterdam the cab driver told me that the russian mob runs all the prostitution and gambling and much of the drugs and they wouldn't tolerate anyone messing with their cash machine. he also said that the red light district is mostly all staffed by russian ladies and if you want a real dutch girl you have to go to a private club in a residential area, for 4x the price.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

They are just not arresting as many people and de facto legalizing more crimes. The NL is a hub for organized crime, drug trafficking and human trafficking.

https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/01/people-feel-unsafe-netherlands

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Easy, just let more convicted pedophile child rapists walk free after serving less than half of their already tiny sentence! Then put them in the Olympics representing your country! Just because he drugged her and "only hurt her a little" instead of holding her down.

/s context

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

13 months.... That is just... Wow. I'm disgusted.

Lucky for him he didn't evade taxes hm? That would've meant some serious sentence.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

What? Less than a month ago the government said there weren't enough cells and they were looking into moving inmates to Estonia because they were already having to delay jail sentences.

  1. https://nos.nl/artikel/2539334-veel-kritiek-kamer-op-plaatsen-van-nederlandse-gevangenen-in-estland

  2. https://nos.nl/artikel/2538761-door-nederland-beoogde-estse-gevangenis-kampt-ook-met-personeelstekort

  3. https://www.rtl.nl/nieuws/politiek/artikel/5470152/estland-gevangenis-coenradie-criminelen-verplaatsen-pvv

State Secretary Coenradie wants to explore in the short term whether hundreds of prisoners can be accommodated in Estonia from 2026. Officials from the ministry have already been to Estonia. The Estonians are positive about the plan. The prison in Tartu would be the most suitable, say insiders.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

Errr... So who's telling crap now? I'm no dutch but am curious about our neighbors.