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In the Netherlands, we’re closing our emptying prisons. What can other countries learn from how we did it? | Renate van der Zee (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 4 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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The Dutch have seen their prison population decrease by more than 40% over the past 20 years. At the other end of the spectrum, Britain has the highest rate of incarceration in western Europe, and is struggling with an unprecedented prisons crisis. Britain’s minister of prisons, James Timpson, calls the Netherlands a source of inspiration.

What could the Dutch system teach the rest of the world? First, the declining prison population is not actually the result of recent policies by visionary politicians. Much of it is due to changes in reported crime and the nature of crime. As in many other western countries, the number of violent crimes has significantly dropped in the Netherlands in recent decades.

This does not necessarily mean that there is actually less crime overall, as Dutch criminologist Francis Pakes, professor at the University of Portsmouth, who has studied the reasons for the emptying Dutch prisons, told me: “There is less conventional, violent crime, like murder. On the other hand, a lot of conventional crime went online and is less visible. And it is quite possible that there is a kind of organised crime that we have little visibility on. But fewer serious cases are coming to the police and courts.” And so fewer people end up in jail.

But while the Dutch don’t have a model policy the world can copy, the overall Dutch attitude towards imprisonment could be instructive. According to Pakes, the Dutch are much more aware that a stay in prison does more harm than good. Society may be rid of a criminal for a while, but in many cases, criminals simply resume their activities when they leave prison. They may become more ruthless, due to the violent prison climate in which they have had to survive. And perhaps they have a wider criminal network that they built up behind bars.

This also applies to shorter sentences. Even these can completely turn an offender’s life upside down. You can lose your job, home and social network. And you rarely become a better person during a short stay in jail.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

but how will the us government get cheap slave labour? what will the poor for profit prisons do for money?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 weeks ago

Sarcasm tag isn't necessary. Those who benefit from it see these as legitimate questions.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

A good start is treating drug abuse as a health problem and not a criminal one

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

To do that, you first need to remove conservative and neoliberal politicians.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

The term neoliberal encompasses conservatives unless it's from the standpoint of a feudal society

[+] [email protected] -8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

In the meantime drug abuse ruins neighborhoods and they have a right to be protected.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

people using drugs has zero effect on neighbourhoods, what you’re talking about are the knock-on effects of drug use, pretty much all of which are easily solved by just providing people with necessities like shelter, food, healthcare and education.

the largest contributor to drug use is poverty, so if you want to see a reduction in drug use, start advocating for expanding welfare programs

[–] [email protected] 0 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Decades of throwing money at the problem has shown that nothing changes. The money just goes down the drain.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

Decades of criminalisation has demonstrated that punishment is completely ineffective, you mean? Because welfare programs which give money to impoverished people have been demonstrated to be very effective. It’s spending money on crap like DARE that’s a total waste of time and money.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

This article draws a very colorful picture of our country lol.

Fact of the matter is it is turning into a narco state quickly with drug related shootings and bombings happening almost daily.

Police and the justice system in general is understaffed.

So please do not learn from us, we're far from a role model.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Do you have any articles discussing this? I'm interested to learn more as someone who doesn't live there.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50821542

You can find some more if you do a quick search on netherlands drug violence. Politicians are ignoring this problem completely. It's a growing problem in other European countries as well, Sweden for example.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 4 weeks ago

Its a massively growing problem in many European countries. The UK is having the same issues but some of the strictest laws on drugs in Europe.

At least you get some tax money back from it, unlike us.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 weeks ago

Isn't that mostly a problem in the big, international ports / port cities? I mean, you can have empty prisons everywhere and still mot enough police and customs there

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't understand this article. Just last week the news here was that our prisons are overcrowded and we are considering leasing prison space in Eastern Europe. Maybe it's only certain types of prisons that have shortages? Guess I should look into it a bit more.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago

Guess I should look into it a bit more.

From the inside?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

when i was in amsterdam the cab driver told me that the russian mob runs all the prostitution and gambling and much of the drugs and they wouldn't tolerate anyone messing with their cash machine. he also said that the red light district is mostly all staffed by russian ladies and if you want a real dutch girl you have to go to a private club in a residential area, for 4x the price.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago

They are just not arresting as many people and de facto legalizing more crimes. The NL is a hub for organized crime, drug trafficking and human trafficking.

https://nltimes.nl/2024/03/01/people-feel-unsafe-netherlands

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Easy, just let more convicted pedophile child rapists walk free after serving less than half of their already tiny sentence! Then put them in the Olympics representing your country! Just because he drugged her and "only hurt her a little" instead of holding her down.

/s context

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

13 months.... That is just... Wow. I'm disgusted.

Lucky for him he didn't evade taxes hm? That would've meant some serious sentence.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

What? Less than a month ago the government said there weren't enough cells and they were looking into moving inmates to Estonia because they were already having to delay jail sentences.

State Secretary Coenradie wants to explore in the short term whether hundreds of prisoners can be accommodated in Estonia from 2026. Officials from the ministry have already been to Estonia. The Estonians are positive about the plan. The prison in Tartu would be the most suitable, say insiders.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Errr... So who's telling crap now? I'm no dutch but am curious about our neighbors.