I am more and more convinced that liberals are usually trying to reassure themselves than to persuade an audience.
100% what it is.
REAL
It's gotta be this I can't i.agine this person is actually this co.pletely flabbergasted by the idea of not voting for ANYBODY who's doing a genocide regardless of which political party they're from.
As soon as they understand "Oh they're not voting for that person because that's an endorsement of their actions" they might have to self reflect and wonder why they're pro genocide.
it is not up for debate, you must vote for the candidate no matter what
Freedom-loving America, btw
In bad country you must vote for the one party candidate, etc. Etc.
You must vote for the genocide nominee to secure the future for our children.
there is absolutely no presidential candidate that won't continue to support Israel
Claudia de la Cruz.
Or even Stein
If a sufficient portion of the voting population made clear they would not support her based on those policies she would have to change her policies if she wanted to win.
Like isn't that fairly evident and just how elections work? I don't see how libs don't get that.
I made the ill-advised decision of getting into a discussion on r/politics under a remark that "if you don't vote, you don't have the right to complain" with the comment "and what does the complaining accomplish?"
The responses I got were:
- Complaints signaled dissatisfaction with the person they won, which will persuade voters in the next election (we were completely stymied on "what if the person I voted for won and I am not happy with them?" It was all about 2016).
- Complaints can result in pressure like Biden stepping down and now we have the chance to vote for someone Totally New (pointing out that it seems like the reason Biden stepped down was because polling showed people weren't going to vote for him resulted in the interlocutor throwing up his hands and saying "Fine, vote for the fascist")
People seem completely stuck in 2016. It's all about "Hillary would've won if more people would've voted" and "voting is the only way to interact with the system in a way that achieves political change." The Biden administration might as well have not happened outside of the IRA (pointing out that the IRA sucked does not help)
Idk why I bothered, I guess I'm still trying to process the apparent euphoria going on in lib spaces and trying to figure out how shallow and easily punctured it is.
I think this might be an American Civic Religion thing where America is so monolithic, and so grounded at the center of their reality, that they can't imagine a world where America doesn't exist or even a world where America can meaningfully change. America is the core of the natural order so trying to fight it is like trying to fight the ocean. They can only conceptualize resistance and rebellion as a russian plot, never an organic political action.
We are dealing with fanatics blind to the world as it exists.
America = Erdtree
Democrats = golden order
Kamala = Radagon
Any dissidents = those who live in death
Democrats: Death camps half full.
Republicans: Death camps half empty.
The politicians work for the public not the other way. No one has any obligation to vote for Trump or Kamala and telling people to vote Kamala no matter what won't change that.
Its not like the genocide is happening under Trump, it's happening under a Democratic President.
And making comparison between something necessary for the country to function (income tax) to something that is a waste of resources (the MIC) is ridiculous.
"look, this is germany, there is no candidate that the party will allow that doesn't want to cleanse the jews. it may not be nice, but that's just political reality. how do you not understand that?"
We have to vote for Himmler, he supports a program where Pell grant recipients in historically Black extermination camps get executed by certified Untermensch Comfort Specialists, easing their pain in the final moments. I know his support for the final solution is not ideal, but Russia is knocking on our doors so now is not the time for purity tests!
So voting does or does not matter then I'm awfully confused
look, it's very simple, in a democracy, politicians decide what issues we're allowed to vote on based on the names on their bank statement, and then the voters go fuck themselves. and if fascists get more powerful, it's the voters' fault.
It's like everyone collectively realized this year that American elections are exercises in picking the bourgeois faction most closely aligns with your policy goals, bearing in mind that they have way more in common with each other than they do with you, retroactively justified it to themselves, and now refuse to explain or elaborate on that justification.
Saying the quiet part out loud but not internalizing any of the implications
Of course it matters!
Okej it's like this: 99% of the policy positions are identical to Hitler. That's just how it is, don't worry about it. It will make sens at the end.
If you vote Republican that last percentage also goes to Hitlerite policy positions. It's sort of a "auto policy mode" if you will.
However, if you vote for democrats you get to (sort of) decide what happens to the last 1%. With one caveat: that during special election cycles, when it's really important that they win the elections, that remaining 1% is directly controlled by the party to make emergency policies to gain votes.
Don't worry tho, you will get it back the next election cycle.
Please do not click the link and read the comments.
It's so fucking bad.
This is exactly how average Nazis felt. Not the officers or concentration camp officers (well maybe some of them), but the regular folks who accepted the evils of their government because it was "just the way it is." And they were still Nazis and share some of the responsibility.
Every single person who says this should be told "Then the logical conclusion is insurrection to topple the government that dictates that genocide is an inescapable political reality. Anything short of that and you don't give a shit."
Yea, but you know they will simply post the contra pic or the Walmart tweet and stop all thinking
Contra is great response material because she displays such a pathetic brow-beating routine. She makes a video vote-shaming her straw-leftist alter ego, droning about "harm reduction" while ignoring all arguments for voting third party, claims that we can "push Biden left" without really explaining how such a thing can be done, and then, after he wins, never makes a video about pushing Biden left or ever explaining how it can be done. Just a pure Democratic shill pulling the football like Lucy.
So the candidate doesn’t support the issues I care about, on the handful of positions they’re semi-decent on they’re not willing to do what it takes vis a vis the courts and/or the filibuster in order to make them happen. What am I supposed to be voting based on? Vibes?
And then one fine day the bourgeoisie is awakened by a terrific boomerang effect: the gestapos are busy, the prisons fill up, the torturers standing around the racks invent, refine, discuss. People are surprised, they become indignant. They say: "How strange! But never mind—it's Nazism, it will pass!" And they wait, and they hope; and they hide the truth from themselves, that it is barbarism, the supreme barbarism, the crowning barbarism that sums up all the daily barbarisms; that it is Nazism, yes, but that before they were its victims, they were its accomplices; that they tolerated that Nazism before it was inflicted on them, that they absolved it, shut their eyes to it, legitimized it, because, until then, it had been applied only to non-European peoples; that they have cultivated that Nazism, that they are responsible for it, and that before engulfing the whole edifice of Western, Christian civilization in its reddened waters, it oozes, seeps, and trickles from every crack.
— Aimé Césaire, Discourse on Colonialism (1950)
Feel like the obvious response here is "what do we have the power to change then?" Because healthcare isn't up for debate either, or ending the regime of daily extrajudicial street executions, or doing anything to ease extreme poverty, or even reproductive rights when you consider the balance of the supreme court...
or even reproductive rights when you consider the balance of the supreme court...
"But if we always have democrat presidents, no republican justices will be appointed."
You have to love the ghouls!! You have to love the ghouls running this country!! The people in charge mean everything and nothing at once!! Your frustrations are just about you!!
Objectively on issues of immigration, policing, war, and welfare cuts (I'm sorry welfare "expirations") the Biden admin has been worse than the previous Trump admin, the data is in, the dems took Trump's policies and ran with them
The only remaining argument dems have to distinguish themselves from Trump is that he "EMPOWERS" the right-wing and "EMBOLDENS" white nationalists.....good argument, because it was/is true
But that argument as a reason to vote died after Oct 7th, now a dem victory WILL also embolden the right-wing; specifically the genocidal right-wing of the Democratic Party who for decades have been looking for a right-wing mandate to reorganize the party into a proper business first imperial party, and despite their unpopularity with the proles if they win under the shadow of genocide than that is a mandate under every definition of the word
Doesn't matter if their unpopularity soars and they lose every election after from 2028 to the collapse, they and the media that serve them will proceed as if every democratic voter is a die-hard zionist and will never ever in a million years budge on genocide, war, policing, immigration, etc
Even the rhetoric will start to shift, because why not, "they voted for genocide, they'll vote for anything" the right-wing dems will ride that high for as long as they remain a cohesive party and who's gonna nay-say them? The media? AOC lmao?
Trump is a threat, but the "progressive" movement can survive him and most likely will grow organizing against him
But if the dems win, the progressives are permanently dead on the national stage until collapse conditions metastasize, to say nothing of actual radical orgs who will suffer under an empowered right-wing dem party with a genocidal mandate
That subreddit has gone to shit. I guess Palestine and the Israeli genocide of Palestine was just a flavour of the month issue for liberals, that must now quickly be forgotten about as elections draw near.
Motherfuckers whose single issue is "not Trump" complaining about "sInGLe IsSuE vOTeRs" who won't countenance support for genocide.
When the ruling class decides something is not up for debate we should just accept it and roll over I guess
The pitch 6 months ago used to be that you should support the democratic nominee because they were the one best equiped to end the violence.
We're now at a point where even ride or die blue voters can't even lie to themselves about how this is going to play out and the new pitch is hold your nose and vote for less/slower genocide.
Where the fuck do you think we'll be in another year?
Mandem upvoted a post putting unconditional support for a genocidal apartheid state (something even reagan pushed back harder on than these chucklefucks) on the same level as income tax "not up for debate" and still think you're voting against fascism? Bruh looks like you've convinced yourself its already there you just don't realise it yet. The things up for debate are your reproductive rights among other rights like healthcare etc. Genocide isn't. The other ones like social security and worker rights are up for grabs. Increased oil drilling to burn this planet to hell is happening under biden and kamala. Genocide and endless war however not up for debate. And you think this is a position of power?
The concept of politician having to earn votes is so lost on libs. I'm gonna take a self-care day off and go hiking on election day. Neither candidate earns my vote. What is it that is so hard to grasp.
we don't have the power to change everything
Brother Mao has some thoughts on this topic, particularly regarding the sources of political power.
support for israel is like taxes
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