this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
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The Caribbean island state became the first in the region to win its independence in 1804 after a revolt by enslaved people. But in a move that many Haitians blame for two centuries of turmoil, France later imposed harsh reparations for lost income and that debt was only fully repaid in 1947.

The group of about 20 non-governmental organisations currently in Geneva for a UN Permanent Forum on People of African Descent (PFPAD) are seeking a new independent commission to oversee the restitution of the debt, which they refer to as a ransom.

...

The amount paid to France is disputed by historians although the New York Times estimated Haiti’s loss at $21bn. The proposal’s backers say the amount is much higher.

“It’s $21bn plus 200 years of interest that France has enjoyed, so we’re talking more like $150bn, $200bn or more,” said Jemima Pierre, professor of global race at the University of British Columbia.

Clesca said she hoped the recommendation and others would be part of the UN forum’s conclusions due on Friday. Last year, the PFPAD suggested that a tribunal should be formed to address reparations for slavery.

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[–] [email protected] 73 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I am certain that Europe and America will never give any legitimate slavery reparations in my lifetime.

That said, Haiti is way too unstable right now to give them reparations. They need a stable government first. Otherwise you're basically just giving it to gangs.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago (1 children)

um,,,,sweaty,,,the us DID pay reparations

how were those slaveowners gonna recoup the losses of their property without reparations

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

It was the UK that did that. In the US, slavery was abolished through straight up "property confiscation" (from the perspective of slaveholders)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

The UK did that too

They were more comprehensive and generous, but the US did pay reparations to slave owners

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Interestingly, this law also paid the newly freedmen $100 to fuck off to Haiti

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That was paying slave owners and only in DC

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yes it was the US paying slave owners compensation for slaves.

Thanks for reiterating it is exactly the thing claimed didn’t happen.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That said, Haiti is way too unstable right now to give them reparations

There's a question of who to give it to. But it is undeniable that the country with one of the lowest standards of living on earth, squarely in the path of major hurricanes, and prone to massive earthquakes, needs resources to rebuild with the kind of stable and resilient infrastructure that can endure these shocks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good luck doing rebuilding without a stable government.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Good luck having a stable government without any offices, roads, or reliable food supply.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Who is going to build all of those things? Who is going to organize them? Who is going to get the supplies? Who is going to ensure nothing gets stolen and no one gets hurt? Who is going to take care of any medical issues that turn up due to things like accidents?

How do you do all of that without a government?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

France broke it, France needs to fix it.

See also: US Invasion of Iraq

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago

That's not an answer to how you do all of that without a government. You can't just say "France has to do it" and walk away like that solves it all.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

So what does "fixing" look like? Are you saying France should go in Haiti, and ...start building infrastructure, creating and funding a civil service, create, support and uphold state institutions etc? Because, in that case, um, you just invented colonialism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Like we do for other failed states, there is a UN-led reconstruction program, in this case funded by France.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Can you please give an example?

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Makes sense! I think France, and all countries that had slave colonies, should pay back the equivalent of the profits they made from slavery with interest. It won't take away the atrocities that were committed but it is part of justice.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Given what's happening over there right now, people who are due reparations will see exactly 0 and all the money would be stolen.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

Yep. Instead Macron is arresting New Caledonian separatist politicians

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I highly recommend this video to anyone interested in the history of the Haitian debt: https://youtu.be/WpWb3MTV9bg?si=DHz4ZFaFr2Zhidy-

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Get a Henson razor and a free pack of 100 blades with code REALLIFELORE at https://bit.ly/3oL97pK

Might be a good video, but I really do hate this shit.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

You can watch his videos on nebula without the sponsor segment

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

JP Morgan too?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

France doesn't have "trillions". There is nothing that can be done to force France to pay, so demanding too large of a sum, even if justified, is a good way to get them to say "fuck that" and you get nothing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Hati didn’t have it either.

It didn’t stop France from demanding it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

To be franc (or to be billion francs), France has enough money, guns, and United Nations Security Council seats to give Haiti the middle finger