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[–] 96 points 2 years ago
[–] 82 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's a clever joke. I however have radical freedom!

Chooses to put the book outside

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    [–] 65 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Unless we have a way to find out what that predetermined future is, it's irrelevant and you should proceed as if it isn't a thing.

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  • [–] [S] 52 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    So you're saying turn to page 72.

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  • [–] 28 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    If you like. You can also be a rebel and turn to a different page or stop reading the book altogether.

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    [+] 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago)
    [–] 37 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    When I was like 7 my mom bought me a choose your own adventure book. I tried to read it cover to cover and was very confused.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    So if you read it cover to cover, what did you think the instructions were about? What about the "turn to page X" parts?

    I'm not judging - this is exactly the sort of oblivious thing I would've done as a kid too - but I'm curious how it happened.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I specifically remember doing this with one of the goosebumps choose your own adventure. There was a good ending page that referenced nirvana (the idea not the band) and I read that thing end to end choosing both choices for everything. No page ever sent you to it. It was just a contrivance that you were sent to glance at while flipping through.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    Haha, fuck fate. I have free will!

    Throws the book in the fireplace

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  • [–] 32 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    But the book only has 71 pages

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  • [–] 21 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    One cauld rightfully argue "determination" and "predetermination" are wildly different concepts. The comic is wrong on this. But let's go page 72 anyway

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  • [–] 18 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Hell yeah how good is determinism

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago*

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UebSfjmQNvs - Kurzgesagt - Lemmings will reee optimistic greenwashing.

    Can Free Will be Saved in a Deterministic Universe? PBS Space Time - And it's counter argument page https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/11/15/free-will-video/

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/free-will-is-only-an-illusion-if-you-are-too/ - I'm glad to the coincidence regarding see my semantics point regarding 'Free will' being a somewhat outdated term being a key point in this article.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (20 children)

    And yet I can speak about my consciousness, and therefore deliver information to you based on an experience which can't be physically observed or quantified.

    Perhaps the universe is naught but a comforting illusion.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago (15 children)

    deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified

    I'm not sure if "Black Box of electro-chemistry" is necessarily the same as "Non-determinism".

    That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.

    That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn't necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.

    I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (11 children)

    That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.

    That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.

    How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?

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    [–] 9 points 2 years ago

    Would be nice if there was a hidden ending on page 57

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    I am disappointed in how long it took me to see the joke, but its a good one! I'm gonna have to go with page 72.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    This reminds me of that one riddler comic (Found it, batman black and white #5 "The Riddle", here's a reddit link since that was the easiest to find https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/tn8b68/ )

    It's a creative and very short choose your own adventure and I highly recommend it

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    *turns to page 60 like a boss

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    [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    Which book is this?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Relevant pbs spacetime video (discovery about microtubules relevant to theory of quantum consciousness)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    Can you agree but also conclude that this knowledge has no real impact on our lives, and therefore our agency is preserved?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Robert Sapolsky's books are challenging but worthwhile reads.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (17 children)

    Your mind is a computer attempting to optimally fulfill several prerogatives which are determined primarily through evolutionary pressures. It is free to do this in the way it sees best and is free to adapt as the environment in which it operates changes, in the sense that it is not forced to override it's internal decisions and come to a different conclusion regarding how to act. I consider this to be free will. You may disagree, but that would be haggling over definitions, rather than facts.

    Crucially, this definition is true regardless of whether the universe's course is predetermined or not. I personally don't think it is, because a good chunk of the universe is random and I find it hard to believe that that randomness was predetermined.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

    If we're to rely on facts and facts only, I'll argue its internal decision making is itself clearly determined by several factors, most if not all of them being determined causally.

    I'm quite sure this addition erases the mere idea "free(dom)" and "free will", which would somehow escape universal determinism, hence creating a special case in the laws of causality for humanity only.

    Edit : changed phrasing because I answered after reading your first paragraph. Then I read the second one.

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