this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2024
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Mildly Infuriating

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... as explained here.

Basically Microsoft presents this "incredible" product, and then says in the same breath: "Oops, not for your current setup. Maybe you should consider buying a new PC?"

Really!? 😠

If only Linux were ready for mainstream use...

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I bought Microsoft Office Home & Student 2021 ... a one-time non-subscription purchase. Today I found this:

I was able to figure out how to "re-activate" without signing up to 365. But damn sure seems like a dark pattern to me

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

i saw that on a new install of the 'non-sub' office last month. stupid af, just another way of scamming for subscriptions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Was this screenshot taken with Recall? πŸ˜‚.......😭

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

This is peak humor idk why anyone's downvoting this πŸ˜‚

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 5 months ago (12 children)

What is it specifically about Linux that doesn't work for you?

I'm asking because I've been using it for almost a quarter of a century as my main desktop.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Not OP, but just to serve as another data point: mostly just exhaustion. I am a full-time software developer, so I just really don't want to deal with configurations and set up complex systems at home. That's why I haven't gotten into any smart-home stuff, either - I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with the issues that come along with the space.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Not sure how long ago you tried installing linux, but it has come a long way such that there are distros out there that are basically plug-and-play installable now. I installed Linux Mint on an old laptop and just went through the gui installer like you would on a Windows installation, and it was up and running. Didn’t need to open the terminal even once.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

How is Linux Mint for gaming? Does it still have input delay?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I drove Linux Mint for a bit when I was trying to quit Windows. The only thing that made me go back was that, while I could install Steam, the game I was playing at the time (Destiny 2) wasn’t compatible with Linux β€” as in, I couldn’t even launch it. So I’d switch back and forth for a bit; Windows for gaming, Linux for everything else. But at the end of the day, I don’t want to have that extra layer of complexity in my life. I ended up just sticking with Windows. I will probably give Linux Mint or another distro a shot in the future, but for now I’m only on Windows.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Wild, I'm not a developer but I do some very basic coding. Linux out of the box has it all pretty much lol. If it doesn't, the package manager has it easily. Windows is such a hassle with environment variables and downloading different tools like compilers and IDEs and shit.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I answered a bit further down a bit lengthier. Hope that's OK. πŸ™‚

To be clear, I enjoy my Linux environment. But could I leave Linux on my parents' devices who recently bought a new printer and use a facial recognition camera? I'd be worried...

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

It's funny how well linux works with printers, no stupid hp app, no configuration. Just hit print and done.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

To be fair, depending on the printer

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago

15 years for me. It's pretty great.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Not OP, but it's still lack of hardware support for me. I tried to daily Linux on my laptop and gave up in frustration after several months because a few key pieces of hardware are not supported and seemingly never will be.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

Not OP but personally, I've always had an impossible time trying to get drivers to work for my GPU to do more than just render 2D stuff like the desktop and basic web browsing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

UI/UX mostly. Yeah you can do a lot of things, but the experience doing it isn't as easy. Ex: gimp. Which has gotten a lot of hate here recently (and deservedly so)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The only reason I don't use Linux all the time are video games - which are getting better, and streaming because DRM doesn't support it and I can tell the difference between 720p and 4k. Otherwise it's my main OS.

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 5 months ago (4 children)

I'm kinda tired of hearing bs like β€œif only linux was good enough”.

It is. You just have to install and use it.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (4 children)

We're close. We just need a couple of vendors to step up and take some responsibility.

Steam already picked up all the hard stuff.

Adobe products, Outlook, and of all fucking things Roblox.

I probably also really wouldn't hurt if somebody could manage to make Nvidia background removal working OBS Linux.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Yeah the Roblox thing is hard to swallow, it used to work better on Linux than on any other platform for me. Everything else there's alternatives - my local PC shop sells machines at a significant discount "without windows installed", maybe if more did that the market would take care of things and the software vendors would have to support Linux.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

I used Linux daily for 20 years.

Linux may be ready, the mainstream software isn't.

Are you working with Adobe? Good luck.

Want to play some multiplayer game? Good luck, again.

Oh yes, chrome and Firefox run fine. Just disregard LibreOffice, it's disappointing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I've been using it for around 30 years on my desktop and haven't really had issues with it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That makes you extremely unquallified to determine weather or not Linux is ready for the desktop of the mainstream computer user.

After 30 years you are very familiar with the workings of Linux, meaning you fic issues before the become a problem.

What is way more telling is having a Windows user/gamer just grabing a Linux ISO, burning it to a USB drive, booting the drive, installing the OS, installing Steam, installing games and gaming with zero issues on the first try.

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Linux Mint is ready for mainstream.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I hate how hard they try to force you to use a Microsoft account with it. And yes, the hardware requirements are too stringent. Microsoft works hard at taking away agency from users and empowering the users' corporate bosses and data miners instead.

On top of all that, it's 2024, Microsoft...a lot of people are struggling to buy groceries or pay rent/mortgage. They don't want to be forced to buy a new PC.

As for "just use Linux" crowd....you know what? I agree! And some people will migrate. But it's going to be sort of like the reddit > Lemmy migration. Don't get overly excited about it.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (5 children)

We don't need everyone to migrate, just enough that companies and developers feel obligated to support Linux. We're slowly getting there. Valve throwing their weight behind Linux for gaming was a massive win for Linux. Another important factor is the rise of the mobile first generations and the fact that at its core Android is Linux based. It's not completely trivial to port an Android app to Linux but it's at least no worse than porting it to Windows.

Microsoft may still have a stranglehold on corporate desktops, but they've long since lost the battle for servers and their hold on the home desktop is slipping a little more each day. Losing a significant chunk of gamers to Linux would be a massive blow to MS because it has been one of the few really unassailable markets for them historically.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I downgraded from 11 to 10 and disabled TPM. Fuck you Microsoft. I'll pay for antivirus once support ends.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 months ago

Antivirus won't do s*** for you, if a good exploit comes through they don't need a virus they just do whatever they want. Even the best EDR packages out there have their limits if you don't keep updates.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

I like how Microsoft managed to not just shoot there own foot but somehow managed to rip off there own legs. They are driving Win10 market share but also telling people to move on.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

~~Why do you think Linux isn't ready for mainstream use? Just curious.~~ edit: nevermind, I see you've already discussed this.

I went full switch recently, and haven't hit any major roadblocks yet. I feel like I could've done this years ago too.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm hoping to make the switch next month. Building out a new gaming system and going to try going all in on Linux again. Long ago I was a full time Linux user, but with the rise of Steam and the spotty support of wine I couldn't justify staying with it. Now that Proton is good enough to cover 90%+ of my games library I'm returning to where I started.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Nice! I'm excited for you! Hope it works out this time!

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago

I switched to fedora on memorial day weekend, installed it along side windows. I would definitely say Linux is now ready for mainstream use based on my experience with an atomic desktop. I haven't had a reason to boot back into windows yet.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Linux is mainstream ready. A lot of people still just use a web browser. For decades now Linux came with an intuitive GUI driven installer, a whole live Linux OS running on a CD when windows still used a dos like setup. Linux has worked great for decades to use a web browser, which is a lot of what people do on computers.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What are you trying to do that you don't think you can do on Linux? Also there's ways to install Windows 11 on unsupported systems.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Tbf, I work with Linux regularly and it's great for me. But for the average user who wants basically zero learning curve like your average Android provides? Linux is a hard sell. To repeat what has been said so many times here:

  • Games. It's better than it used to be, but Windows just does it better. The same goes for general software compatibility. Windows Store apps, for example, generally don't run at all.

  • My surrounding never wants to open or see a command line. Ever.

  • Driver & hardware support. Windows still beats Linux here. And this is an important one.

  • Easy compatibility between distros. What works on one may not work on another. That's a problem.

Like that.

Really, for someone willing to learn how their PC works, Linux is a good choice, maybe even a great choice. I love my Linux PCs. Am on OpenSuse at the moment and its been a fantastic experience. Couldn't avoid some of the problems above, of course. But this isn't about me.

For someone who just wants to click and install games, plug in random hardware and start using it a few seconds later, never touch an update interface and basically wants a system that just works intuitively because that's what they've known for years... Windows is a better choice. And I say this with a sad heart, because I really wish that Linux was the competitor that Microsoft fears.


Edit: thanks for the reminder; I will likely install Windows 11 (the unsupported version as it were) for my immediate surrounding, apart from some techies. πŸ˜„

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I hear ya. I bought a AMD CPU+GPU laptop to run Linux on, but a month later I'm back to Windows.

While the default graphics driver worked most of the time, I had random graphic card crashes on a 20 year old Wine-ran game. Even the official amdgpu driver had issues (PITA to install as its not being maintained). No issues with newer games through Steam (Proton is amazeballs) fortunately. I also had random issues with a second monitor not being detected that were probably graphics driver related. Some random UI focus issues were likely a window manager issue (KDE).

Sleep/hibernate doesn't work 'out of the box' and I couldn't get it working reliably after screwing with grub. It was a gamble if it would actually power down or just go back to the lock screen. I don't know why its so difficult for a basic thing that's been around for decades.

So now I'm back on Windows, everything works as expected. Honestly I love Linux and its leaps and bounds better from what it was, but Windows is a still better choice for hardware support reasons. I'll give it another try if AMD gets it together with their driver support.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I’ll give it another try if AMD gets it together with their driver support.

As an AMD GPU linux user this is confusing. There is no driver needed. There is nothing to do with AMD. Must be the laptop? A unusual variant, or early adopter?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I would guess that there's some mode or version of Windows that turns those things off, because there are gonna be Windows 10 kiosk machines, and the kiosk/digital billboard crowd is not going to tolerate Microsoft throwing full screen stuff up.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There is a checkbox in the settings of the normal Windows 10 Pro to turn it off.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Microsoft hasn’t detailed ESU pricing for consumers yet, but the company did previously reveal it will offer these extended updates to consumers for the first time ever

They're actually gonna make us pirate security updates huh

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (9 children)

My largest showstoppers with Linux is the lack of DRM support, the lack of "just works" installs, no Parsec (I've tried Moonlight/Sunshine many, many, many times, it never works for me), and ... this one little thing ...

I would use Linux more if either Virtual Desktop or Steam Link worked in Linux. As it stands, neither work, and current implementations of VR in Linux are still alpha / experimental beyond Index / SteamVR direct tethering, not an option for someone that has a cheap standalone headset.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You are saying steam link for VR correct? Because Steam Link itself works fine.

The only thing I have to dual boot for is VR at this point. And I havent even done that in maybe 2 years. But it really is the final thing for me.

All the other games I care to play work fine. The last two Resident Evil's were flawless. Almost everything is pretty much click and play these days.

I remote to other computers and remote into my own, so I take it you are using Parsec for something specific? I never used it before.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I would say Linux was more ready for mainstream use 10 years ago. Now with Wayland and (god forbid) Nvidia is quite unstable. And if the best advice is "do not buy Nvidia", then indeed it isn't ready for the mainstream use.

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