This doesn't make any sense to me. Does "Liberal" mean something different in America than UK/Europe?
this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
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Pretty much. Their left would be more centre/centre right anywhere else.
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Liberal in this context is used to refer to the political and economic structure that is liberal democracy; not necessarily the western social definition of liberal.
Conservatives are liberals because they support the status quo that is liberal democracy
edit: this sounded like I was disagreeing with you, but I was just trying to add context so the joke was legible. I completely agree with your comment
OP is addressing both definitions.
"Liberals" (in the American bipartisan usage of the word) in the US think of themselves as the counterpart to "conservatives", but leftists regard them both as liberals in the classical sense as mentioned.
It's a cynical jab at the american liberal self-identity, because their self-image is primarily defined by their opposition to conservatives but this is suggesting they are actually the same.
No, but some users on Lemmy, especially hexbear or lemmy_ml, use Liberal as a slur for Capitalist and they go on long rants about how Liberals and Nato are the devil while they touch themselves to the thought of going down on Xi Jinping.
This post is just pro-CCP Propoganda.
"Hey guys, isn't a little concerning how the vast majority of our politics have been concentrated into a very small segment of the Overton window such that the only real party disparities are an extremely small handful of key issues like abortion and gun rights?"
"Silence, cee cee pee shill!"
Sure dog. Everything is fine. Blame your insecurities on China.
their "liberal" still means "neoliberal", its just that theres not much further left than that over there.
Liberal in America used to refer to the progressive left, which I understand is already different than most other countries who use Liberal to refer to Classical Liberals (which we generally just call conservatives or fiscal conservatives). However, to make things even more confusing, the term now mostly refers to centrists thanks to the, "Third Way," Democrats. They were basically a mix of more Neo-Liberal fiscal policies with more progressive social policies; Bill Clinton is the textbook example, supporting gun control and early education while gutting welfare and deregulating Wall Street. This kind of Third Way Democrat basically became the standard of the party, which therefore made them standard of American Liberals. People farther left than these Liberals started referring to themselves as progressives or leftists instead.
So, tl:dr; Liberal used to be a progressive, but now mostly means left-leaning centrist.
The only people who think liberal means progressive are 18th century monarchists and liberals
Yup, no argument here.
Yes. In the US "liberal" means progressive for god knows why. Both the parties are liberal in the traditional sense but saying that confuses the yank mind
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Liberals and conservatives are different in ways that matter A LOT to liberals and conservatives. The differences don't matter nearly as much to leftists, which pisses off liberals to no end.
Does it matter to them? There's a whole demographic of morons that act like the differences aren't clear as day. That a "left leaning" person would even consider voting R in 2024 is a horrific joke.
Some leftists view the US as the last of the old empires, built on violent conquest, genocide, exploitation, and stolen land. They would say that the world cannot progress so long as the United States exists, and they might vote R precisely because they think if R is in power it will accelerate the collapse of the US empire.
I don’t see any significant number of people doing this. That would be like demolishing a condemned building while you’re standing in it. Yeah it probably should come down, but there are still people inside.
I think about half the people who claim to be accelerationist are just foreign actors.
I think it's more than half, but whatever the number the remaining few are fools without exception.
This might be true, but it's a little tangential: leftists just don't have a horse in the race. From a dialectical materialist perspective, neither party/candidate is substantially different. They are also quite aware and are resentful of the electoral strategies of the R/D divide that manufactures crisis around social disagreements instead of addressing the increasingly distressed working class conditions. They are well aware of the 'threats' posed by the R side, but they regard them as intentionally overblown and even somewhat encouraged by the D's who are increasingly desperate not to address materialist issues for fear of loosing the support of capital.
Basically: they think the desperation of the democratic party is a bit of schadenfreude for enabling the R party and the orange cheto man to begin with, and they think the D's need to feel a bit of electoral pain in order to come around on issues that are more central to leftist concerns.
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Some leftists ~~view the US as the last of the old empires, built on violent conquest, genocide, exploitation, and stolen land. They would say that the world cannot progress so long as the United States exists, and they might vote R precisely because they think if R is in power it will accelerate the collapse of the US empire.~~ are the dumbest fuckers you will ever meet.
Ftfy
Eww it smells like Tankie in here.
I fail to see how "Taxing the Rich" is the same as "Taxbreaks for the Rich" but I don't feel the need to defend myself to people who shill for Putin.
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As usual...
I like your stuff
Anyone that isn't immediately on board with getting rid of First Past The Post voting should be highly suspect. Why do blue states still use First Past The Post voting? Why are you so afraid of democracy Democrat's?
No, I don't need to type a 100,000 word essay on how Republicans are worse then democrats.
Username checks out
What gave it away?
That it is you. At this point, you should know unless people are right about you acting like you don't understand.
They are being sarcastic. I take comments literally sometimes too. Happy to help.
Not my first interaction with them. I don't think they are sarcastic. They like to act oblivious to what people call them out on. You can say they just like to be sarcastic in these situations but then they have to accept that people form their opinion based on their continuous sarcastically stated expressions and not their honest opinion. I take them by their word, because I have no reason to be generous anymore.
Have a little fun before you die, it passes the time. You think I don’t know I’m old and out of touch?
People seem to think they’ve discovered this revelation that I hadn’t discovered decades ago. These are just electrons being displayed on a screen with 1’s and 0’s , treat them as such.
The real revelations come from introspection, not recognizing the faults in others. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
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I honestly think liberals and conversatives aren't the same. Their motivations are fundamentally different but for whatever reason a lot of liberals are also conversatives as they are afraid of changes as those changes makes it less predictable and predictability is important when talking about liberties as there isn't really any liberty in random events. At the same time, a lot of people are culturally conversatives even in left wing circles. So you got a lot of liberals who are afraid of change (especially because it is a threat to their portfolio) who think that e.g. women and men were equal by law anyway and companies should be allowed to promote whoever and if they are men, they are men. LIBERTY!!! The wife should stay at home but that is tradition and fits in their "liberty". Now you might wonder how is a conversative different? Not at all in action but they don't really care about liberty but about tradition and safety.
BUT down the line, if conversative fall into their favorite little fascist hole, liberals will be fighting conversatives because now they are affected.
The difference is that the liberal and the conservative will always combine forces to destroy the leftists when possible.
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