629
this post was submitted on 20 Dec 2023
629 points (97.2% liked)
politics
19089 readers
3991 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
if enough states remove him, he'll cause a big enough fuss that he'll get 1/3 of the damn vote from loons writing him in
If he's disqualified then write in votes for him won't count either.
Technically they will count.
The issue is that he is ineligible to be president. The the same as if he was foreign born or under 35.
How will they count if he’s ineligible?
It is a primary. A party can nominate whoever they want. It has no bearing on whether who they nominated actually is eligible to be sworn in.
Some 3rd parties have ran ineligible candidates. If they actually won, the electors wouldn't actually cast their votes for them, but the votes are counted and tallied AFAIK. Given these are parties that make the Green Party and Libertarian parties look like first parties, they've just been ignored.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%B3ger_Calero
Notably, Colorado is one of the states that wouldn't let Calero on the ballot because he was ineligible.
I think they mean the secretary of state may release a total of write-ins, but to my knowledge they make no effort to distinguish write-in names if there aren't enough to swing it.
So technically, they count write-ins. Just not in the winner's column.
A lot of foreign born presidents, so I'm calling bullshit on this one!
Many of the presidents were actually born in england....
.
.
.
.
.
.
/S
ahhh votes have an eligibility multiplier... trumpvotesx0 bidenvotesx1
You can vote for Vladimir Putin all you want. He can’t be the president of the United States.
Not with that attitude
Typical, you have no idea how the country's election system works. You have to register as a write in candidate for write ins to cont
Don’t tell your racist uncle that though
Please do tell him. That's one less vote for whoever the legitimate R candidate is.
That's the point? Don't tell him so he'll write him in and the vote will be lost?
To be honest, I just don’t see how he can be disqualified without a conviction. Among others, it requires state courts to rule on out-of-state conduct. For instance, in the (admittedly unlikely) event that the jan 6th charges against T are dismissed, should he be allowed back on the ballot?
Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment does not expressly require a criminal conviction, and historically, one was not necessary.
Ok,but somebody has to make the determination that Trumps conduct is consistent with sedition. Just from a formal point of view I don’t see how a CO court can rule on this, when the action took place in DC.
a judge already made that exact determination.
So a CO judge makes this determination even though the act occurred in DC, where the court has no jurisdiction? Democracy is so fucked if this stands.
Again, if congress had convicted Trump, or a judge makes a ruling of seditious behavior within its own jurisdiction I am totally on board with striking him from the ballot. But this ruling just sounds flimsy to me.
Do you not understand how the constitution works?
The case is about the court's home state ballot so in that sense they do have jurisdiction. The Colorado court isn't ruling on the Wyoming ballots, for example. Litigators in other jurisdictions can refer to the Colorado finding in their own cases.
Congress's role in the context of the 14th amendment is explicitly laid out. If SCOTUS wants to argue that the Colorado ruling isn't binding then the only remaining constitutional remedy is a Congressional vote to remove Trump's disability, meaning they have to vote to requalify him for office. Republicans can barely figure out how to put their slippers on in the morning let alone muster a 2/3 vote to forgive a traitor for trying to overthrow the country.
I think that the more concerning implication is that states are the ones that determine who should be allowed to run for president or not. This is messy and not cohesive, I don't think this sort of structure which we may be building is conductive to a healthy democracy. But we will have to see how far reaching these events reach.
Already told you; if section 3 is self-executing, nobody has to make that determination.
Does Arnold Schwarzenegger need to be convicted of having been born in Europe?
That’s a bit of apples to oranges. Nobody contests the fact that Schwarzenegger is born in Europe, while Trump’s case is literally pending in court.
What about Ted Cruz?
Ted Cruz was on the ballot for the primary election in 2016 across all states, so this doesn’t help your case. Remember that you are trying to make the argument that Trump should NOT be on the ballot (despite there being no conviction).
Wind back the tape and Trump argued Ted Cruz should be off the ballot.
My point is that there are some candidates where this has been contested! McCain suffered a similar lawsuit.
This whole argument is dumb as neither of us are lawyers and 90% of people who are disagree with you.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna26765398
The question you are trying to get at is whether or not section 3 is self-executing. The answer is that it's not a settled matter.
The consensus right now, as far as I can tell based on my media consumption, is that the SCOTUS will overturn the Colorado decision. The real question is how they will decide to do so.
Not all states allow write-ins. And some that do have very strict rules about them.
Or claim the election is already rigged, causing enough of his folks to stay home and NOT vote in other races that the house and state governments see unprecedented flips.
I think you might be underestimating the sheer laziness of voters.
I honestly think we’re going to see something very similar to J6 both in the run up and in the potential for it to turn violent. I think it could happen on a larger scale because the consequences have not been very harsh, except for a handful of minor players. There’s nothing that will keep Bobo and MTG and that whole rogues gallery from calling on people to “make their voices heard 1776 style” or some such euphemism. I don’t even know if they’ll bother with euphemisms at this point.