this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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It has been a while, but I'm pretty sure the bladed weapons are needed because the shields specifically block objects with high kinetic energy. I also recall one of the houses on arakis getting bombed, but only after they were able to turn off the protective barrier. I might be mixing up Sci fi books, though.
You’re not - it’s pretty explicitly the point. The technological arms race has gotten so advanced that everyone has devolved into fighting with knives.
The shields don't just protect against kinetic weapons, they also tend to cause energy weapons to blow up in a thermonuclear explosions iirc
Sounds like a drone dropping an energy weapon on a shield users head would do the trick then.
iirc computing is pretty gimped in Dune as well because of previous issues with AI, humanity limited development on that front and focused on developing human capabilities instead, which is where spice came into play…it like super charged your cognition in order to navigating ships through space or something like that. Someone familiar with books please correct that I’m sure it’s not perfect.
That's right. There was a war called the Butlerian Jihad in which humanity wiped out anything close to AI. Since then it has been high-treason-level illegal to "make a machine in the image of the human mind".
That's why they have "Mentats".
Also, the book was written in the 1960's. At the time, you still communicated with a computer using a teletype because nobody had thought to put words on a screen yet. You can also see this in the original Star Trek - they never show a screen with text on it.
Anyone who does that is getting immediately dog piled by the rest of the houses.
There are cultural implications. For the same reason that thermonuclear warheads are stockpiled but not used these days, they avoid using lazguns because you simultaneously blow up more than you would need and turn everyone against you. There are laws in the empire that prevent a military power from intentionally triggering one of these reactions for obvious reasons.
Specifically it causes the explosion at both ends, so firing a laser at something you aren't 100% absolutely positively sure is unshielded is suicidal.
Isn't the thermonuclear bomb a Foundation thing, not a Dune thing?
Is it both? I can see why op said he may be mixing them up lol.
Usually whenever I ask myself "is it X or Dune?" I default to Dune, since it is just that old and has inspired so many things in sci fi.
And even then, the training focuses on slow, deliberate moves, as even a fast knife can be deflected.
You are correct. But the movies did indeed make a poor introduction to the shield technology. I think it was just a short mention when Gurney is training Paul and is easily missed. They even have to train for a specific fencing style that involves slow movements as a fast swung blade can still be stopped by the shield. And I don't remember them talking about the interaction between lasers and shields at all, which creates a huge explosion.
My bigger issue with the movies was the typical hollywood charge. No tactics or strategy involved at all. Just screaming and running.
My biggest gripe with the movie currently is that when a Crysknife is drawn it must draw blood before being sheathed again. If you don't use it on someone you must cut yourself. This is explained to the reader in the book, but in the movie it includes the scene where it would be explained but isn't mentioned. It's not a huge deal. They can just ignore it. However, at the end of the movie the Fremen have their knives drawn and it focuses on them cutting their hands to sheath them. I'm sure people who didn't read the books before seeing the movie would think it's really weird, especially for a culture so obsessed with water (although I don't recall if they've discussed recovering water from blood yet).
The shield-based fighting style was also a small note that was missed in the duel between Paul and Jamis in the movie. Paul was missing what they thought were clear cuts and as a result they believed he was cruelly toying with Jamis, but it was because he was slowing his blade at the very last moment due to shield training.
Also a slightly weird moment for me as a book fan was when the thopter Duncan escaped in clearly showed that it had shields with a rock crashing off of it, but then he was being chased by lasguns immediately after.
From what I remember the movie ignores the lasgun and shield interaction completely, which I think is a reasonable tweak to keep things simple and allow them the to use the nice aesthetics of lasers.
Glad to know I wasn't the only one who thought that was a bit off-putting. Same where the Sardaukar try to use a laser to get to Paul, nobility is almost guaranteed to wear a personal shield, so that felt like a very bad idea. Although you could argue that Sardaukar are fanatic enough to not care about getting wiped from existence in a nuclear explosion.
Yes it is because of shields. Laser fire on shields makes a nuclear explosion and I think most fast projectiles are reflected.
Also don't personal shields attract the worm?
Yes, correct