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Americans are absolutely convinced their narratives about Soviet history are correct despite never actually learning anything about Soviet history (hexbear.net)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I’ve spent the last few years devouring Soviet history. Books, papers, blog posts, podcasts, all of it. I can’t get enough. Not to brag, but I do feel as though I’ve achieved a certain level of understanding about the USSR, its history, and eventual collapse. But I’ve also put the work in.

And yet, whenever I engage people I know IRL or online, I’m amazed by how doggedly people will defend what they just inherently “know”: that the Soviet Union was an evil totalitarian authority dictatorship that killed 100 million of its own people and eventually collapsed because communism never works. None of these people (at least the people I know IRL) have learned anything about Soviet history beyond maybe a couple days of lectures and a textbook chapter in high school history classes. Like, I get that this is the narrative that nearly every American holds in their heads. The fact that people believe this isn’t surprising. But what is a little surprising to me is that, when confronted with a challenge to that narrative from someone they know has always loved history and has bothered to learn more, they dig their heels in and insist they are right and I am wrong.

This isn’t about me, I’m just sharing my experience with this. I’m just amazed at how Americans will be completely ignorant about a topic (not just the USSR) but will be utterly convinced their views on that topic are correct, despite their own lack of investigation into that topic. This is the same country where tens of millions of people think dinosaurs and humans walked around together and will not listen to what any “scientist” has to say about it, after all.

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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Let us look at a specific example. A claim like “There’s cultural genocide of Uyghurs in Xinjiang” is simply unreal to most Westerners, close to pure gibberish. The words really refer to existing entities and geographies, but Westerners aren’t familiar with them. The actual content of the utterance as it spills out is no more complex or nuanced than “China Bad,” and the elementary mistakes people make when they write out statements of “solidarity” make that much clear. This is not a complaint that these people have not studied China enough — there’s no reason to expect them to study China, and retrospectively I think to some extent it was a mistake to personally have spent so much time trying to teach them. It’s instead an acknowledgment that they are eagerly wielding the accusation like a club, that they are in reality unconcerned with its truth-content, because it serves a social purpose.

What is this social purpose? Westerners want to believe that other places are worse off, exactly how Americans and Canadians perennially flatter themselves by attacking each others’ decaying health-care systems, or how a divorcee might fantasize that their ex-lover’s blooming love-life is secretly miserable. This kind of “crab mentality” is actually a sophisticated coping mechanism suitable for an environment in which no other course of action seems viable. Cognitive dissonance, the kind that eventually spurs one into becoming intolerant of the status quo and into action, is initially unpleasant and scary for everybody. In this way, we can begin to understand the benefit that “victims” of propaganda derive from carelessly “spreading awareness.” Their efforts feed an ambient propaganda haze of controversy and scandal and wariness that suffocates any painful optimism (or jealousy) and ensuing sense of duty one might otherwise feel from a casual glance at the amazing things happening elsewhere. People aren’t “falling” for atrocity propaganda; they’re eagerly seeking it out, like a soothing balm.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks, was scrolling to see if someone had posted this yet or if it was my job

[+] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 year ago (1 children)

authored by Chinese students and scholars

who are all based in the west, i checked

[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago

Actually they're cringe in the west

[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm trying to be unbiased here.

as a side note, there's no such thing as unbiased. everyone is shaped by their class background and material conditions

[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago

Critiquing China from the left is ok. And what that looks like is acknowledging that there is racism present in China and there are marginalized groups who aren't being treated fairly. That needs to change, just like it needs to change in nearly every other country in the world. Marginalization of minorities remains a global problem, and China could be doing more.

BUT, there is little credible evidence to suggest that minorities in China are worse off than minorities in the US, or Scandinavia, or Japan, or Isreal, etc etc etc. In some respects, they may even be better off.

So yeah, it would be totally reasonable to take, say, an anarchist perspective, and criticize China as part of a broader concern about power structures. Criticism that paints China as "evil" is not criticism from the left and is, intentionally or otherwise, buying into Western anti-China propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago (1 children)

let's be specific about what your claims are, marginalized is an incredibly low bar to clear when the US has been pushing lies about extermination camps

https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/xinjiang

[+] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 59 points 1 year ago

It seems like a double standard to say that China may be indirectly marginalizing people, but at least it isn't operating extermination camps

The accusation is that they are operating extermination camps, though. That is the claim of various media and government-affiliated organizations in the west. That's what we're responding to.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think there's some confusion that because we push back so strongly against red scare nonsense regarding China that we have no criticisms of the country.

This is not true. We do, it's the "critical" part of critical support. But in the context of the most deranged militaristic country in the world warmongering constantly the choice of when you voice those criticisms is very important. If you're not careful those criticisms actually strengthen the hegemonic conception that China is an evil enemy to be defeated at all cost.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 1 year ago

So the issue myself and others here have isn’t that Uighurs may face discrimination, marginalization, etc. They might, I will admit I don’t know enough to comment one way or another.

The thing is, “marginalization” is most definitely NOT the narrative going on in western media. It is that China is specifically engaging in genocide and forced labor camps. Both of these claims are patently untrue with zero evidence; and even Michele Bachelet’s UN commission agreed on this.

That is the narrative we push back on here.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Can you or any liberal institution you know of point to an instance where America resolved the issue of organized terrorist attacks in a region without the use of invasion, drone strikes, and black sites? By all means, please tell us how you think China should have solved this issue instead.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't say it's marginalization so much as it is being born into poor economic standing with limited upwards mobility, if that makes sense? China does try with it's affirmative action policies, but it's pretty hard to overcome when you're a visible minority and generally born in poorer provinces simply by demographic distribution.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks for acting as an excellent example.