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Has anyone noted the pre-election uptick? (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 day ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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[–] 29 points 22 hours ago (36 children)

This is the way, at least until we get rid of First Past the Post and other Ordinal voting systems.

Score, STAR, or Approval would all make primaries unnecessary, and also reward people for honestly voting their preferences. Which is sort of why there's so much pushback against them.

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  • [–] -1 points 21 hours ago (33 children)

    But since the people benefitting from the current setup are the ones who'll have to agree to change it and create the new system, there is absolutely no hope of ever peacefully ending the current status quo.

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  • [–] 17 points 21 hours ago (30 children)

    Except for the fact that pretty much every single progressive in Congress or on the ballot is in favor of some form of electoral reform.

    But like you said, obviously nothing at all can be done, you know, besides voting for them.

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  • [–] 4 points 13 hours ago (7 children)

    I think you need to put more weight on their qualifier word “peacefully”.

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  • [–] 3 points 13 hours ago (6 children)

    Do you have enough guns to fight the US military? No? Well neither do I.

    Which is why there are steps that must be followed. And right now those are peaceful protest and voting. Making sure everyone votes.

    The time for violence is likely coming, but it has to be after the election. After Trump blatantly ignores the will of the people.

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  • [–] 3 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

    The violence in the street is already happening. The violence in the courtrooms is already happening. The violence in universities is already happening. The violence in the legislative chambers is already happening. The violence at the homes of resistant politicians is already happening. Roll over, if you must.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

    You sweet summer child, you think you know what violence is. You most certainly do not.

    No revolution has ever succeeded without the aid of the military. If the left kicks of the violent resistance too early, the military will not side with us, and in fact will join in the hunting us down part of things.

    That's why we have to follow specific steps. First is peaceful protest. Second is voting.

    Third is violence. And if we get steps one and two right, we might not have our homes bombed as we sleep.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

    You're thinking on the right track, but honestly they already replaced all the top brass with stooges and forced most of the officer who had principles to resign. I would not count on the military intervening if trump declares himself emperor for life.

    We still need to vote, of course. But if he ignores the results, or if they fuck with the elections too hard to ignore, don't expect salvation to come from above...

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  • [–] 0 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    Top brass doesn't matter. It's the mid ranks you have to watch for. The ones who have some power, but not enough for Trump to be able to demand full loyalty. As Vietnam showed us, when orders are unpopular, the officers start dying.

    But no, there won't be salvation from the military, honestly the best scenario is them just stepping aside.

    But if dipshits kick things off early, then they military will not stand aside. They will see it as an attack on the country and will gleefully put down "enemies of the state".

    But when Trump ignores the election results, well, there are a lot of people who are lawful neutral, or even some lawful evil, and will not support the chaos of Trump ignoring the election.

    And that's where we can win this. That and once the violence starts (after the election), the targets need to be the right ones, CEOs, billionaires, and such. Picked off in ones and twos, making none of them feel safe.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 hours ago

    Gentlemen may cry, "Peace, peace" - but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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  • [+] -8 points 21 hours ago (21 children)

    And the people who actually control the party, decide what legislation gets a vote, and punish members who go against leadership will never allow it to happen, nor will they allow any of those progressive politicians to succeed them in their positions of power. Progressives are allowed on the party bcs they help keep the left flank in line, but they will never be allowed to hold any real power. That might threaten the Wall St donation gravy train, and the Third Way Foundation assholes who have a death grip on the power structures of the party will kill everyone on Earth before they give up that money.

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  • [–] 6 points 20 hours ago (20 children)

    Ah, defeatism. And basically telling other people to not even try.

    I'd expect nothing less from .ml

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  • [–] 2 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

    Lol, the people insisting that continuing to do the exact thing that got is here is the only viable way to change things accusing others of defeatism will never stop being hilarious.

    Now do the one where you pretend Democrats have passed a bill that helped the working class more than it helped Wall St any time in the last forty fucking years, that's always a riot!

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  • [–] -1 points 3 hours ago (1 child)

    Did you vote for progressives in the primaries?

    No? you just want to feel superior by representing the very meme at the top of the page? Sure. Just shut the fuck up until after the election because the rest of us need to be the adult in the room. The simple reality is that thanks to First Past the Post you have exactly two choices.

    Pro-fascism or anti-fascism. If you refuse to make a choice, well guess what, thanks to FPtP, you've chosen pro-fascism. That's the hell we live in.

    If you tell others to not vote, then you've again chosen the pro-fascism side and are a piece of shit on top of it.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 hours ago

    Did you vote for progressives in the primaries?

    I spent a decade working my ass off to get progressive candidates elected as a campaign staffer. So I know whereof I speak when I say the unelected power brokers who control the party will never allow progressive elected Democrats to put their hands on any levers of power that actually matter. They're happy to have them go on TV and talk a good game, that helps keep the peasants from revolting, but they will never be able to pass any legislation the Third Way Foundation doesn't approve of, because the leadership will always be from the pro Wall St faction.

    So yes, i voted progressive in the primaries, and the Congrescritter who represents me is one of the furthest left elected Dems in the country. None of which changes the fact that electing Democrats will not and can not ever change the fundamental status quo.

    Pro-fascism or anti-fascism. If you refuse to make a choice, well guess what, thanks

    On that we agree. I've just seen enough of what happens in the back rooms where the sausage gets made, so I understand that voting for either half of the capitalist Uniparty is pro-fascism.

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  • [–] 2 points 15 hours ago (7 children)

    Somehow not defeatism: We have to vote for the democrats, dont you dare think a better world is possible

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  • [–] 3 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

    Did you vote for progressives in the primaries? Actually I don't care, the primaries are over, you fuck with the dick you've got, not the one you wish you had.

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  • [–] -2 points 15 hours ago* (5 children)

    Nice way of changing the subject. Try to relate to the actual fact that your line of thinking is defeatist.

    "progressives" like AOC the last and hardest rider for Genocide Joe or Bernie "both sides" Sanders? I'm sorry, but I'll be writing in Hillary, its her turn!
    Either that or vote third party, since thats the only way you can actually justify this batshit idea of "strategic election incrementalism" that is so popular amongst embarrassed fascists like you lot

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  • [–] 0 points 13 hours ago (4 children)

    You do realize that you're the meme right?

    Right now, this comment is the fucking meme.

    You fucks always ignore everything the actual fascists do, so that you can get high off your own ass claiming that the democrats are the real fascists.

    Fucking get over yourself and admit you like the conservatives more.

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  • [–] 3 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

    i despise conservatives. i hold special hate in my heart for democrats though, because they are just such dogshit opposition and their cultists will smugly crow about every minority getting unpersoned due to their incompetence. they refuse to see how much they have in common with red maga and this entire thread and OP are the foremost example of it

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  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago

    > me, holding up a picture of a crying wojak with some reductive strawman text underneath
    > wowww youre like literally the meme wowww

    Somehow you people keep fucking up, you struggle to argue against the actual leftist critique of your "lesser evil" argument.
    The democrats are fascists as are the republicans. There is no practical difference between the two. You keep making up some alternative position you'd like leftists to hold, because it is easier than actually engaging with the argument at hand. "Oh do you want a grenade or a nuke?" I am arguing they are both nukes, "oh you think the republicans aren't fascists" I am arguing they are both fascists.
    The reasoning for this argument has been pointed out many times. Each time it devolves into either strawmanning, like here; the other acting willfully obtuse; or petty name calling.

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  • [–] 0 points 12 hours ago (8 children)

    Tankies won't but the effort into voting but want to be perceived as serious to actually be marching in the streets.

    They have some real criticism of the dem establishment, but no real perspective that they are surrendering office to fascism.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 hours ago* (7 children)

    i get called a tankie all the time and i vote in every election from the municipal up.

    the democrats are not a serious opposition party, many democrats in blue states are essentially just republicans who learned how to not openly say slurs in college (think people like seth moulton)

    they squat on power and are not credible opponents to fascism, only to thier left do they actually put up a fight.

    why would they? they have unlimited money and legions of people willing to debase themselves defending any incompetence out of pure team loyalty.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 hours ago (6 children)

    i get called a tankie all the time and i vote in every election from the municipal up.

    You also spend a lot of time suppressing this kind of organizing. You could be happy that its happening and that it could be the seed for something higher level and beyond electoral.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 hours ago* (5 children)

    You also spend a lot of time suppressing this kind of organizing.

    i don't spend any time suppressing elections, what are you even talking about lmao

    a random anarchist shitting on blue team online for being genocidal warmongers is not 'suppressing electoral organizing'

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  • [–] 0 points 2 hours ago (4 children)

    i don’t spend any time suppressing elections, what are you even talking about lmao

    You have several comments like it. For better or worse the progressive wing does live in the Dem party and we should try to grow it as much as possible. Beyond that your critic is right, but even those dems are a chance to live and fight another day where abandoning the election is certainty of a Republican win and even worse outcomes. Minimizing harm is still important while we build out communities.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (3 children)

    a comment in an online forum is not suppressing elections.

    expressing dissent about how ineffective democrats are as a party is not suppressing elections.

    i am complaining about blue maga being smug jerks and blaming everyone but their own politicians because i would actually like them to succeed over the republicans.

    i would like to see them become capable of self-reflection and demand better from their dogshit politicians, but they prefer to act like a cult.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago (2 children)

    i would like to see them become capable of self-reflection and demand better from their dogshit politicians, but they prefer to act like a cult.

    I would like to see .ml types be more understanding that their all or nothing mindset isn't going anywhere and try to build more solidarity overall.

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  • [–] 1 point 52 minutes ago (1 child)

    'solidarity' as a demand that i stop criticizing democrats is not solidarity, what you're asking for is for us to be more disciplined by that party and subordinate to it.

    solidarity is reciprocal by definition, what you ask for is not. feels like you're using it as a buzzword to extract loyalty

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  • [–] 1 point 17 minutes ago

    solidarity’ as a demand that i stop criticizing democrats is not solidarity, what you’re asking for is for us to be more disciplined by that party and subordinate to it.

    This is a shifting of the goal posts as that was never the discussion. If you read carefully:

    What I am saying is that you are taking a shit on people who are organizing. Sure its not your preferred method, but you should back them up anyway. You don't have to run or canvas the campaign, but it really takes no effort from you to vote in primaries and elections. Your words and many others in .ml are counter productive to building leftist movements.

    Blue no matter who has always been a last resort anyway.

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  • [–] 3 points 15 hours ago (1 child)

    You missed the "vote progressive in the primaries" part

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  • [–] 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

    Nope. I spent a decade working my ass off to do that and worked my way up to being a paid campaign staffer for progressive candidates.

    I suggest you do the same so that you can learn what I did: the people who control the levers of power in the party will allow progressives to be elected, it helps keep the left flank in line, but they will never allow progressives to have enough power to change the fundamental nature of the party as a machine that turns bribes into Wall St friendly legislation.

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