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[–] 14 points 2 months ago (31 children)

Resistance training is not bodybuilding

Correct. Bodybuilding is a presentation sport with a variety of rulesets and judging criteria. Resistance training is a form of exercise with many proven physical and mental benefits

Most athletic people I've seen (especially runners) often look like they have no muscle

Usain Bolt was phenomenally muscular when he was competing, as are most sprinters. Many recognized Olympic sports reward larger physiques

Biceps have nothing to do with longevity.

You have my permission to skip direct bicep training.

Just make sure, assuming you want the full spectrum of proven benefits, that you hit your pulls (such as rows and pull ups, or appropriately scaled variations). This will heavily involve your biceps just so you know, but the main focus is the back.

In fact, extra weight is extra load on heart.

Dangerous medical misinformation, you should delete this. Resistance training has proven cardiac benefits. There is zero risk of acquiring “too much” muscle mass

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    There is no way those guys walking around at 6'1 300 lbs and sub 20% body fat are not taxing their hearts more than a similar height person of normal weight/bf%.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It should go without saying that illegal drug abuse causes countless extreme health issues

    You may be surprised to learn that non-drug abusing bodybuilders usually max out around the 150-170lb mark on stage. There are very hard limits to how much muscle your body will let you build

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    You may be surprised to learn that non-drug abusing bodybuilders usually max out around the 150-170lb mark on stage

    That's really weird because most bodybuilders I know don't really go below 75-80kg. Yes, I know many as I used to go to the gym, studied as mechanic and I'm from a small city that's focused on gyms and outdoor fitness areas.

    I myself weight 78. Most of my muscle is lower torso since I've been cycling and mountainclimbing much of my life.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Are you implying 20% body fat is low?

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago*

    It kinda is if you're a woman. Of course there's not very much overlap between women and 6'1" 300 lb guys.

    But yeah, the problem there is the abuse of steroids and growth hormones required to get such a body. That will fuck your body up in various ways you might not even notice at first.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (24 children)

    There is zero risk of acquiring “too much” muscle mass

    This is dangerous medical misinformation. Reduced mobility, joint stress, cardiovascular strain, heat intolerance (quite important lately), compartment syndrome, rhabdomyolysis risk, etc. You can most absolutely ruin your health by having too much muscle mass. Last I checked, in statistics bodybuilders have quite terrible longevity as opposed to resistance training folks (which basically shoots in the opposite direction of longevity).

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40393525/

    EDIT: Non IFBB study: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9885939/

    As someone mentioned, any such study is poisoned with the fact that many bodybuilders reach for steroids, but in any case when you look at data of bodybuilding versus resistance building, you gotta raise an eyebrow.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (21 children)

    Perhaps once you understand why you are wrong, and you realize how much your error has the potential to harm people, you will apologize.

    This study is definitionally unrelated to any form of resistance training, or the additional total body mass that you can acquire via resistance training.

    It is an observational study on the outcomes of IFBB contestants. For anyone who doesn’t know, the IFBB is the primary bodybuilding federation for drug abusers. They run the “Mr. Olympia” contest which you may have heard of.

    The drug abuse they glorify directly results in many extreme health issues including sudden cardiac death, in exchange for levels of muscle gain that far exceed what is possible for any natural athlete.

    I want to be clear. What they are doing is extreme, illegal, dangerous, and critically, not related to resistance training in any meaningful way. The body will not allow you to become so muscular that it harms you, which is why these extreme athletes need illegal drugs to become so large in the first place.

    It is shockingly irresponsible and ethically wrong for you to withhold this necessary context, and to so severely contort this paper into your unrelated false conclusion

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  • [–] -2 points 2 months ago* (20 children)

    This study is definitionally unrelated to any form of resistance training, or the additional total body mass that you can acquire via resistance training.

    Why would me pointing to a study that shows worse health for just body building (as opposed to resistance training) show data about resistance training? The study is about pure body building that focuses on muscles like biceps, just like the meme above, the thread I'm commenting on.

    The discussion is essentially "Cardio vs Weights". I'm pro-cardio. You are not going to convince me of the opposite. I truly believe in longevity of resistance training as opposed to body building (focused on simply muscle growth), or whatever is your/everyone's goal here.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (17 children)

    I see, so in the end, you have decided to persist in falsehood. I hope you know that through humility, it is still possible for you to be redeemed from this shame.

    Beyond that, the actual content in your latest comment here is ludicrous beyond credulity. You continue to literally lie about the contents of the study. You assert imagined facts about bodybuilding as a whole that nobody else ascribes to. You propose a ridiculous false dichotomy between aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

    It is my hope that everyone will be able to easily see through what you are doing. Here is some accessible educational material for those who may possibly be confused by your continued repetition of dangerous and misleading information:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training

    Some highlights, emphasis mine:

    Strength training, also known as weight training or resistance training, is exercise designed to improve physical strength. It may involve lifting weights, bodyweight exercises (such as push-ups, pull-ups, and squats), isometrics (holding a position under tension, such as planks), and plyometrics (explosive movements like jump squats and box jumps).

    The effects of strength training include greater muscular strength, improved muscle tone and appearance, increased endurance, cardiovascular health, and enhanced bone density. These benefits contribute not only to athletic performance but also to long-term health and independence, especially as individuals age.

    Regular resistance training supports metabolic function, helps regulate body weight, and can improve mental well-being through the release of endorphins.

    Strength training also provides functional benefits. Stronger muscles improve posture, provide better support for joints, and reduce the risk of injury from everyday activities.

    Engaging in strength training has been linked to a 10-17% reduction in the risk of death from all causes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, and lung cancer. Two of its primary effects-muscle growth (hypertrophy) and increased muscular strength-are both associated with improved longevity and lower mortality rates.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (16 children)

    Can you please stop being obtuse on purpose? I feel like you clearly know what I'm talking about (longevity effects of resistance training vs focused muscle building with little to no cardio), yet purposefully (or accidentally?) decide to constantly misinterpret me and turn this into a ridiculous argument, because it's really weird that I pretty much agreed with everything you say, yet you disagree with me like I'm talking something entirely else. Even your examples of bodybuilding is not really the bodybuilding I was talking about as that is closer to resistance training.

    You simply cannot deny a fact that pure resistance training is better than simply building my arm biceps, that is very anti-scientific but you constantly nitpick at definitions and wording instead of the idea I'm discussing, probably to appear smarter.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    Muscle building is a primary effect of resistance training. Bolded that for you above.

    You are not being misinterpreted. You are wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (14 children)

    And yet focusing on arm biceps is hardly resistance building

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    Who is this biceps only person you are obsessed with?

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago* (12 children)

    Look up at the meme, the thing I talked about in my comments, the guy flexing biceps (with visible 6pack, but focus still seems to be on arms)

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (11 children)

    Okay I’m looking at the meme, please hold.

    …

    Excellent, yes it is exactly how I remembered it.

    But why are you talking to me incessantly about exclusive bicep focus when literally the first thing I said to you was to go ahead and skip direct bicep training because it doesn’t matter?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (10 children)

    But why are you talking to me incessantly about exclusive bicep focus when literally the first thing I said to you was to go ahead and skip direct bicep training because it doesn’t matter?

    It's more about mass building, my focus was on biceps because that's what the focus in the meme seems to be. I didn't even disagree with your initial comment with my comment, I just wanted to point out the difference because I see many people around getting into bodybuilding and eventually many start doing stupid shit like steroids, all sorts of sketchy powders, etc. like a getaway drug, and so I feel like there needs to be a clear distinction between what counts as resistance training as opposed to focusing on simply muscle and mass growth. I don't think you even said "bodybuilding" yourself, I was commenting more about the meme under a comment that highlights the importance of resistance building. Even edited to comment to say "just FYI" so that it's clearer I'm adding more info, not arguing back.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (9 children)

    Okay, great. Yes overt illegal drug abuse is extremely harmful. You also happen to be talking to someone who dislikes the scummy supplement industry in general. I go as far as steering people away from creatine and protein supplements. I agree, the whole association between drugs/supplements and broader gym culture is extremely problematic

    The final thing is the difference between resistance training and cardio. They are not positioned against one another whatsoever, in fact as you become stronger you need a higher base of cardio to continue to progress.

    So in conclusion:

    Cardio: good

    Resistance training as defined by the linked wikipedia article: good

    Muscle hypertrophy resulting from resistance training: good

    Drug abuse: bad

    Excessive mass gain possible only via drug abuse: bad

    Doing nothing but bicep curls: bad

    Does this all feel aboveboard?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (8 children)

    Pretty much with a tiny detail that seemingly enraged half of the community - I said arm biceps (in context of this meme) hardly correlate with longevity (directly) and resistance training for me is all about longevity and health, not looks (I know this is very subjective). Would you agree with that?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    I don’t know why you’re still talking about it but yes. Exclusive bicep focus is not a good strategy for improving your health. Nobody ever said otherwise, not even the meme (the subject has a fully developed upper body, and the angle even shows off the whole back). Just let it go

    It’s also literally irrelevant. The reason you pissed off 100% of the community is not because you dislike bicep training, but because you posted dangerous medical misinformation, which is still in fact in your original post. You have now agreed that you were wrong about that. You should edit your post to correct your mistake

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (6 children)

    I'm confused. What part of my original comment is wrong exactly? That extra weight (read: not useful muscle for cardiovascular system and longevity) is extra load (edit: whether the body handles that extra load effortlessly is another question)? The fact that I wish for people to differentiate between bodybuilding and resistance building? I truly believe we should push for clear difference in definitions for those two terms instead of saying it's part of bodybuilding.

    How is that even dangerous medical misinfo? Why would anyone get hurt by that?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    extra weight

    Correct, this part is where you were wrong, as you have now agreed in writing.

    Why would anyone get hurt by that?

    You are actively encouraging people to develop osteoporosis and sarcopenia. Secondarily, you are steering them away from the massive list of other proven benefits of training, such as reduced injury risk and improved mental health.

    It’s literally as insane as telling people to avoid drinking water because drinking alcohol is bad for you, and those are both things you drink. And then posting a random study about the health outcomes of alcoholics and literally lying through your teeth as you say the study is about drinking in general, whether it be water or alcohol.

    It’s shockingly disingenuous and unethical

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    Just to clear some more confusion - when I say extra weight, I mean any form of weight (including fats) that don't directly contribute to better wellbeing of your body, longevity and better cardiovascular function.

    What do you think I meant by extra weight?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    If you are so concerned about confusion, you should refrain from ever explaining or offering advice to anyone moving forward

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (2 children)

    That hasn't really happened before and people generally take my advice (probably because I look like 30 at near 40, muscular and fit). Recently also managed to get my chubby cousin to start going to the gym after I bombarded him with studies highlighting how important it is.

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