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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

hey chapo, long time, first time (w this acct ;p). ive been in this global online community of a few hundred anglophonic trans ppl who are largely commies (i.e. new discord server) and there was this recent debate on whether straight trans ppl are queer. its lowk unhelpful discourse that is distracting ppl, i know, but its important to clear up queer theory and focus on materialism, ive been adding my 2 cents occasionally, but i posted this essay today, lmk what yall think cat-trans

(CW: spoilered instances of queerphobic language as examples of how interpersonal interactions uphold reproductive labor)

""

i just had another thought abt the relationship of queerness to reproductive labor. might help settle some things w ppl who still disagree on the definition of queerness. one could mistake a straight couple with no kids and no intention of having kids as "queer" bc of the definition weve been putting forward, but this comes from a misunderstanding of labor itself.

with productive labor, there exists a reserve pool of labor, consisting of unemployed ppl who can be called upon by capital to sell their labor in order protect capital from things like strikes, elevating these lumpenproletarian to more economically stable proletarian. similarly, straight couples without kids, whether by choice or not, exist in a reserve pool of reproductive labor (lumpenbreeders maybe?).

many ppl are financially unable to support children and make the decision to not have them, they can often have children thrust upon them through accidental birth (exacerbated by restrictions on reproductive rights pushed by capital) or a death in the family of ppl w kids (the social pressure of this is exacerbated by the horrible conditions for orphaned children created by capital). wealthy boomers and gen x who made up this class of lumpenbreeders were given a name, DINKs (double income, no kids), and they are the favored lumpen of capital. they can build stability to have kids later in their 30s if they please, they can freely adopt multiple children, they can act as godparents to more than one family, they can start a foster home and engage in systemic child abuse. these ppl are by definition not queer (i.e. not radical on the axis of reproductive labor) NOT bc THEY can have kids but bc they are amenable to CAPITAL as a suitable child-raising unit

queer ppl are queer both bc we self-identify as queer and bc society identifies us as queer. some queer ppl dont like that label, but its the one we have. many queer ppl are identified at a young age; my first clear memory of being marked as an effeminate “boy” by a group of peers was when i was around 6-8 and that involved being chased and threatened w violence. the boys who bully us were likely taught by their fathers to hate the “

spoilersssy
boys” (and later are they told to hate the “
spoilerdke
tomboys”, later in life i found myself to be a
spoilersissy dyke
tomboy, dialectical synthesis and whatnot lmao). the act of their fathers teaching them that being a “
spoilers*ssy 'f-slur'
” is bad is reproductive labor bc it enforces straightness, not only on their child, but on the children their child is socialized with. yes, straight trans women/men can be bullied as kids, but they grow up to be STRAIGHT. by identifying as straight, both by themselves and by society, they are not queer.

gender non-conformity practiced by straight couples is sparing bc it is constantly policed by their peers. currently, many straight trans ppl exist, but their navigation of straight society is complicated by their transness. this is transphobia, but they are still allowed to exist in straight society, making them not queer. the ability of trans ppl to exist in straight society is being taken away however, and this should worry every trans person, straight and queer. i would love to fight alongside my straight comrades for a better future, but i will fight for trans ppls right to exist under straightness bc my goal isnt to divide straight and queer, but to eliminate the need for such distinctions. however, we live in a capitalist society and our culture has evolved steeped in that, so queerness is REAL and we have to approach it with the same seriousness we approach other axes of marginalization. i think its safe to say that most ppl in this discord r queer; we need to make it clear that our movement is not “culture war,” and that culture is shaped by economic realities

i love all my trans comrades, u all deserve love and happiness

""

hope yall like it! i spent my morning lovingly crafting it for trans ppl :)))

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[-] SirSmoothAES@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 6 days ago

Interesting thought to define queerness by one's relationship to reproductive labor. I can't help but notice however that if you go by that definition queer kids don't exist since they can't yet reproduce, yet you seem to acknowledge their existence regardless.

Or maybe I'm overlooking something in your analysis. That is also possible lol

[-] sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

child-rearing is also part of reproductive labor, it takes many years to make a new worker. and queer kids are queer bc of their exclusion from "straightness" which can lead to them becoming queer adults who dont participate in reproductive labor. some straight ppl experience same sex attraction but arent queer, us in the queer community call these ppl who indulge in gay sex while maintaining straightness "trade"

[-] SirSmoothAES@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 6 days ago

queer kids are queer bc of their exclusion from "straightness"

So what is "straightness" then in that context? Because in that phase neither gay nor straight kids can reproduce thereby somehow making both queer?

[-] D61@hexbear.net 3 points 5 days ago

"Husband" and "Wife" and 2.5 kids.

At one time it was limited to a cis man + cis woman with the goal of making a household that will produce children. The man working outside the home for pay and the woman working inside the home doing unpaid domestic and child rearing work.

As time advances and the culture becomes more accepting of people and family situations that don't map onto this ideal of a "straight" relationship 1:1, so later, things like cis homosexual relationships with adopted children are close enough to be okay. Time moves farther on and more situations deemed "outside of the ideal" are incorporated. If reproductive labor is working well enough to create an appropriately sized workforce and a hierarchy is maintained between those attempting to conform to "straightness" and succeeding and those who can't conform to "straightness" being made an example of through being harassed and ostracized.. then the system is working as intended by capital.

[-] sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

thank u cat-trans i dont think i articulated my argument accurately :(((

[-] sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net 1 points 6 days ago

"straight" is how capital defines it. those who are satisfactory as reproductive laborers. trans ppl are, temporarily and at a limited capacity, included in straightness if we adhere to a lot of norms and mores

[-] SirSmoothAES@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 6 days ago

If "straight" is what capital defines as socially acceptable reproduction then "straightness" is arbitrary rather than material. Then it wouldn't be defined by one's relationship to reproductive labor, but rather what capital arbitrarily defines as such and if queerness is the isolation from said straightness, then queerness is also arbitrary.

[-] sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net 1 points 6 days ago

ability has nothing to do w straightness. i was able to have kids, but im trans and the action of transsexuality that i undertook combined w my (part-voluntary, part-involuntary) separation from straightness separates me from reproductive labor (the material reality of this is queer couples finding it harder to adopt or find a surrogate, difficulty finding housing, increased external scrutiny on parenting)

ND ppl and ppl w disabilities r separated from both productive and reproductive labor, and the mechanism of this is different

[-] SirSmoothAES@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 6 days ago

So if I'm getting this right "straightness" is defined by one's relationship to capital's ideal of reproductive labor while queerness is a conscious rejection of said ideal?

Works for me I guess since I'm cishomo myself, but I'm not going to deny bi or pan people in straight relationships their queerness.

[-] sludgemaxxer@hexbear.net 1 points 6 days ago

not conscious, necessarily, just existing outside of that ideal

this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2026
12 points (92.9% liked)

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